From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 6 09:34:24 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AB74DBD; Sun, 6 Apr 2014 09:34:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qc0-x235.google.com (mail-qc0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3377B1F; Sun, 6 Apr 2014 09:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qc0-f181.google.com with SMTP id x3so5144920qcv.26 for ; Sun, 06 Apr 2014 02:34:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eB7naAKRNm/cGvsKsBtM+d0aFN8QPQrW7TjXbTY8beY=; b=k2lQGMSxBo+pi4Sh4ZKWLp2DQuM69JkrnUtB6SSe3jkP/e4Selj1L7fdcuvSgwTNk8 voHzBlElBYKH2epVHT35M8G8ZBAo4F0hgrnA2of++QO90S7tlOm9NmOywmg017h08Ejl h7Bb18x/FjYY7uE+uI4aeUvOuJQUVQYdhW7jcYmJdPXij1AXgJKY+mNwyABHmbAhAyYt uScoBFE/plIGJXVQiYEt1km75cASDvBSh3xIPFLllYoN53t5MdkpJfUcvGQVlo/URkuB yJzt/la8oVxTRetUgjHYFqQumEa8IPeSq5yJJxNF2Wl9EM/vwHUe/1W8Lw3HcUX+Ioxb +NhQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.29.141 with SMTP id q13mr26498963qac.8.1396776861671; Sun, 06 Apr 2014 02:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.50.206 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Apr 2014 02:34:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6418BE83-BE78-473B-9311-C849507FA885@ixsystems.com> References: <201404021607.s32G7mhw051355@svn.freebsd.org> <20140404115256.GA85137@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <8D6AF193-A5A3-4A28-A230-97A543395ACA@ixsystems.com> <2E0EC8CB-B3EE-4DB8-A33D-58FD2107F14D@FreeBSD.org> <6A02504F-5543-4F91-92F6-7B4FB9A34DC4@ixsystems.com> <152D73EE-DF9E-4757-B547-F1F22B12C824@FreeBSD.org> <8E3BD3C1-A441-48C5-97BC-45EF67513096@FreeBSD.org> <6418BE83-BE78-473B-9311-C849507FA885@ixsystems.com> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 02:34:21 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eQfORJSTR3WU_31BaazQ7IhsvYo Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r264042 - in head: include lib/libc/gen lib/libc/include lib/libc/stdlib From: Adrian Chadd To: Jordan Hubbard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" , Baptiste Daroussin , "src-committers@freebsd.org" , David Chisnall , "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 09:34:24 -0000 Although non-LLVM may just die, I'd like people to please consider what it takes to bring a new CPU architecture/platform up and how, well, that support typically doesn't make it into the public LLVM source straight away. So if we want to be taken seriously by those funny companies that make CPUs, then: * we still need external toolchain support; * .. and that may be LLVM, but it may not be the LLVM that you currently have in HEAD, with the current set of expected features in our LLVM. -a On 4 April 2014 07:17, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > On Apr 4, 2014, at 7:03 PM, David Chisnall wrote: > >> That said, I think we're increasingly going to be using LLVM for things = that are beyond just simple AOT compilation, so platforms with no LLVM back= end are likely to be left behind. > > Amen, and a topic worth an entire discussion in its own right, but I'll s= pare us that and leave the topic with just one quick anecdote: When we por= ted MacRuby to LLVM, thus creating in effect a ruby JIT compiler, we were p= retty amazed at how quickly the work progressed and how good the performanc= e of the resulting code was. MacRuby later died for other reasons, but its= JIT/AOT compilation abilities were amazing enough that we were left wonder= ed why the Python and Perl folks weren't stampeding over themselves to foll= ow suit. > > I think the answer there was that they'd already rolled their own bytecod= e systems, as ultimately did Ruby, and had too much invested in those techn= ologies, but I'm still holding out hope that the "everyone but C/C++" world= of languages will eventually converge on LLVM, as seems to be slowly happe= ning with projects like Rubinius and Numba. Not relevant to FreeBSD right = now, but who knows the future? > > - Jordan > > > >