From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Jun 29 22:22:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EBFD3565FD for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2020 22:22:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic306-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic306-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49whnJ1HJPz4XGl for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2020 22:22:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: J4FMALQVM1mtJMHpKBifrQ4BXJQMVLrLO.VUbEwL0yEn2vVza_2uT6T9ggBnvkE Bzv1bvAy0ePW1FJMpoEhFDtjw.zO5rf15fHIPGCTpwCqiJY1thL92DQ5Hhw8cuXzLtVqMbaxlFvP jyW0gf1rIq2rxxyltWqKxkat28o3w.b7t2RENRyNOt9Fr2pa9oI8v.5k0aeHxZ3nDcBcM0BCIOjo EsCvxIW_cJQ87mJC3W6bwngOVAe7Svp0igigZt6JsImpWNEzie3U6jGAD7CWJMFGc_I9WL3vNJBj uWKYr6nVTovfFhX_imuSCp3z4_DzE5TTEmn4jDgdMta96DXLxzXpWw7wgeJFLEidRxe7ytDxuzxk cTGfTJRj5aC5MVOLBZgH38K4eTXFEu2OAusc7McGtXhZePAeNR8pTLHYVbRV2jvQiUgjAf_0yAIs oWivaLGcqpTIGtVzP6HiUIm.oAI6fjIHjSVJZ49rZg9KLXGCqug2FbymQv2uGy7zXNvmsaA03H8W cd6zHx9Qv7ebwFcpwtBdzlq2Q6C7uL4tQF2G5WojEc7SVkauXe0y2s7JyhIu7htJCQya8nDzCKBa .TsrVDbOg7F.e_7.7JmibkTVZ7YaFAJPDIlCCpSh.07739ocbVmfY9Z8T1vpEGNK86qW_RAwO5o3 yGe1hhTEMTg41KcEU14LXU0sPRq9MP1E2se.Ax2kLt2ORLcwE2VBN5Ceb7hMjbG.SFA.SYrjCOU. N0344GB9Cmio7TbVy37LppAZQSuy8DQXzdgEqCXq5HajG3Uzdd9qj13y7mvB1lJf6hdZ7ea2jqk9 fw_C.2yGxKKlC__8.gsgVqvQ6El.WJr3UfT3kWA1x48snP7umqdchigZE9FYPW.chtqmVRYPNNQH a1oBmBqwZJjylcrjMElBgYKabf_SSv36iJvbA5Rn9FXoiEnYP6viNLDk0.DNDztIUykt7p39Y47y yjoj_w5eNGtUYvQ267Wdo2Um7w3dTWB51JTiXXnsI_UuXiT31p_EYUJZzirAY5LPWA04NwFbFCIh riZtZiZvqJ07xU4RbJ8O_xyelx47_gsIObvL.wqFrsQXTjNIGnEo4nxwFlEjxuVl9pTOzEt6M6e9 uqe_qqdUkPsYTRtyQPW.dtvuA8ZoOFeEthfwvhBDX0hlz2k6jyiBMj4fOL0WQULJXyUgMBGp2bdB hlvPPkPZ7OQzLgm5FR_nNr_J.6Y4FFaY8sw3QxjDzpxMGMWVn5BJXck_.4FELoiDYWyBgHvaIoUA Ye16dRJwLJ6Pqhq988g68rOirP6Ekq8CJm8jBLZrRoSOLMAm3zXw0Q90yxIzHLp2WU2cjjwv9VJ6 MfbtOqtZNsdARDlEylvdpCIKqB91qMbLOkVP4rUkhjOytuINk0vZaFikvfjM7L3kk6D5qc1STh13 EehegZcjHOMO6trU4CljIwy_Z Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 Jun 2020 22:22:25 +0000 Received: by smtp410.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 450f74c78e7d703697c09ac0c5dfa63a; Mon, 29 Jun 2020 22:22:23 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Subject: Re: swap space issues From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 15:22:22 -0700 Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <13D7C246-9842-4DFA-92EB-7161F52ED39E@yahoo.com> References: <2D0E1E39-2607-4D62-A232-F39C6BE1CC0D@yahoo.com> To: dwilde1@gmail.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49whnJ1HJPz4XGl X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.66 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.11)[-0.110]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.05)[-1.048]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.002]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.68.84:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.68.84:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 22:22:29 -0000 On 2020-Jun-29, at 14:12, Donald Wilde wrote: > On 6/29/20, Mark Millard wrote: >> [I'm now subscribed so my messages should go through to >> the list.] >> >> On 2020-Jun-29, at 06:17, Donald Wilde wrote: >> >>> . . . >> >> You report using: >> >> # For possibly insufficient swap/paging space >> # (might run out), increase the pageout delay >> # that leads to Out Of Memory killing of >> # processes: >> vm.pfault_oom_attempts= 10 >> vm.pfault_oom_wait= 1 >> # (The multiplication is the total but there >> # are other potential tradoffs in the factors >> # multiplied for the same total.) >> >> Note: kib might be interested in what happens >> for, say, 10 and 1, 5 and 2, and 1 and 10. >> He has asked for such before from someone >> having OOM problems but, to my knowledge, >> no one has taken him up on such testing. >> (He might be only after 10/1 and 1/10 or >> other specific figures. Best to ask him if >> you want to try such things for him.) > > Who is 'kib'? I'm still learning the current team of the Project. Konstantin Belousov Also known as kib (from kib at freebsd.org). Also known as kostik (from part of his gmail address?). >> I've always set up to use vm.pfault_oom_attempts=-1 >> (avoiding running out of swap space by how I >> configure things and what I choose to run). I >> avoid things like tempfs that compete for RAM, >> especially in low memory contexts. > > Until you explained what you have taught me, I thought these were > swap-related issues. > > TBH, I am getting disgusted with Synth, as good as it (by spec, not > actuality) is supposed to be. While I experimented with Synth a little a long time ago, I normally stick to tools and techniques that work across amd64, powerpc64, aarch64, 32-bit powerpc, and armv7 when I can. So, the experiment was strictly temporary on one environment at the time. > CCache I've used for years, and never had this kind of issue. >> >> For 64-bit environments I've never had to have >> enough swapspace that the boot reported an issue >> for kern.maxswapzone : more swap is allowed for >> the same amount of RAM as is allowed for a 32-bit >> environment. > > Now that you've opened the possibility, it would explain how it goes > from <3% swap use to OOM in moments... it's not a swap usage issue! > That's an important thing to learn. > > Not having heard from anyone else, I'm in the process of zeroing my > drive and starting over. >> >> In the 64-bit type of context with 1 GiByte+ >> of RAM I do -j4 build world buildkernel, 3072 MiBytes >> of swap. For 2 GiByte+ of RAM I use 4 poudriere builders >> (one per core), each allowed 4 processes >> (ALLOW_MAKE_JOBS=yes), so the load average can at times >> reach around 16 over significant periods. I also use >> USB SSDs instead of spinning rust. The port builds >> include a couple of llvm's and other toolchains. But >> there could be other stuff around that would not fit. >> >> (So synth for you vs. poudriere for me is a >> difference in our contexts. ALso, I stick to >> default kern.maxswapzone use without boot >> messages about exceeding the maximum >> recommended amount. Increasing kern.maxswapzone >> trades off KVM available for other purposes and >> I avoid the tradeoffs that I do not understand.) > [snip] >> (My context is head, not stable.) > > Thanks for documenting your usage. I'll store a pointer to this week's > -stable archives so I can come back to this when I get to smaller > builds. >> >> . . . >> >>> What got corrupted was one of the /usr/.ccache directories, but >>> 'ccache -C' doesn't clear it. >> >> I've not used ccache. So that is another variation >> in our contexts. >> >> I use UFS, not ZFS. I avoid tmpfs and such that complete >> for memory. > > I'm using UFS on MBR partitions. GPT for root file systems for me, other than any old PowerMacs (APM). (On the small arm's I just use microsd cards to get to booting the root file system on a GPT based USB SSD via a technique that works the same for all such arms that I sometimes have access to, other than the RPi4's at this stage.) >> . . . === Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar)