From owner-freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Sun May 8 10:56:18 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A7DB32D87 for ; Sun, 8 May 2016 10:56:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.117.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76D461F1D for ; Sun, 8 May 2016 10:56:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from liminal.local (liminal.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3636:3bff:fed4:b0d6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 862F03A69 for ; Sun, 8 May 2016 10:56:07 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk; dmarc=none header.from=FreeBSD.org Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/862F03A69; dkim=none; dkim-atps=neutral Subject: Re: Fwd: The Morning Paper: NOVA - A log-structured file system for hybrid volatile/non-volatile main memories To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org References: <4188b6afbe9e5d43111fef4d4ae5e599a57.20160506051425@mail23.atl91.mcsv.net> <2BE88161-D83A-4265-9EC3-C2F7F7033E93@neville-neil.com> <59877.1462639101@critter.freebsd.dk> <07228891.20160508134321@serebryakov.spb.ru> From: Matthew Seaman Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 May 2016 11:56:00 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <07228891.20160508134321@serebryakov.spb.ru> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="52WxEOuqfanQLgriumuJ1uH4h5HoxWdt9" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.1 at smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_SOFTFAIL autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 May 2016 10:56:19 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --52WxEOuqfanQLgriumuJ1uH4h5HoxWdt9 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="S0019WSxuoFIWlr8Np2vdhKURpBeWRpiD" From: Matthew Seaman To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: Fwd: The Morning Paper: NOVA - A log-structured file system for hybrid volatile/non-volatile main memories References: <4188b6afbe9e5d43111fef4d4ae5e599a57.20160506051425@mail23.atl91.mcsv.net> <2BE88161-D83A-4265-9EC3-C2F7F7033E93@neville-neil.com> <59877.1462639101@critter.freebsd.dk> <07228891.20160508134321@serebryakov.spb.ru> In-Reply-To: <07228891.20160508134321@serebryakov.spb.ru> --S0019WSxuoFIWlr8Np2vdhKURpBeWRpiD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 08/05/2016 11:43, Lev Serebryakov wrote: > Hello Poul-Henning, >=20 > Saturday, May 7, 2016, 7:38:21 PM, you wrote: >=20 >> Hybrid "disk with SSD cache" is a transitionary phenomena, it's >> probably not going to be relevant in five years, which means >> that it is almost already too late to develop a new filesystem >> for it: By the time the code is trustworthy, nobody will need >> it any more. > Do you consider new Intel NVM "3D XPoint" technology? They(tm) promi= se > prices lower than DRAM, but higher than SSD. And same for speed. Looks= > like, there will be THREE layers of NVM in near future: very large and= slow > (HDD, iSCSI/FC attached "shelf", things like this, multiterabyte), SSD= > (in 1-10 terabyte range) and this XPoint in current SSD range. 3D X-Point is only something like a factor of 30x slower than current DRAM modules (which is to say thousands of times faster than existing Flash modules), and I believe Intel are planning on selling it packaged as DIMMs as well as PCIx NVME devices. Kirk mentioned a memory-based variant of UFS in his run through of the history of filesystems during his talk at EuroBSDCon last year -- looks like that could suddenly become relevant again. Cheers, Matthew --S0019WSxuoFIWlr8Np2vdhKURpBeWRpiD-- --52WxEOuqfanQLgriumuJ1uH4h5HoxWdt9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJXLxtHXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQ2NTNBNjhCOTEzQTRFNkNGM0UxRTEzMjZC QjIzQUY1MThFMUE0MDEzAAoJELsjr1GOGkATdLAP/RywGFEYOBvizjQyfpDfnm/z aj2ZK9Wv/AOmJql9CjJFpQHATcHJsoZLBj/ttqBevqxP1IWZuQXy8DYZfbLRYqHo qrP1N90qQchZBu4LxCA47sty9vh5gd+k+TdYJ0IOIvLdEOhbly2XSR+Y3OV9vu5L u8UwMJ5zcZ3T95UgXy+d3FUGYI982HgvdDNmc29obVPLDYPd8iBfJfNjoBPGNa5O 1Ik80mD65aaVjU7DtcPCT6igTPnQq7DpEXXvKhEikVNCreTFXLLdvUGo4VgJnN03 8iXaz/bG73YwGwGhuropOKPABIhoNdUXqX5OaPpaf0cZLKxcrfoygOR0KJNxCHm5 f/VnnISvwp6r8aREZRoWmdZVRfr6qI+ueth3v/8wHyadTnZGWdFzcHBvS3BQ2fP0 2mmlRCcV/DyTAQB/GcE07ZWD7CGC1oulHQXq2NCzyh/lF/HyDcAItZi/NQS7ogjF 0rOeulURv1kZKkfFU5+UFwhxfiTIFmmeb1VlE3H9VtkVd/OHJBVNBY/qJbnepnAn jn8YQzD8I9ImhENAuW6lM/z6Glz5NWQQeTUU6kbvMZUrTa4xi5avn2eTuGPnMAr4 e9Arf+pdbsetdvNsIfiPP0cY1LZIlEFk8njtgX+Ono4oCBkVP7BIRoFTO2+AYa4s P2coiAVOYAf1Ia7viCJW =IItI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --52WxEOuqfanQLgriumuJ1uH4h5HoxWdt9--