From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 11 13:08:48 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 969B932F926 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 13:08:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x12c.google.com (mail-il1-x12c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49jPLl4Nxtz4ZkN for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 13:08:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id p5so5339006ile.6 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 06:08:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Thu, 11 Jun 2020 06:08:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <171506d5-19aa-359e-c21d-f07257c52ebd@freenetMail.de> <20200609120136.00005b3c@seibercom.net> <2393a1e0-b073-950a-78be-9f57d8e9934b@anatoli.ws> <20200610063555.00003707@seibercom.net> <82F57D0D-E0EC-49F7-824E-20A296C9F549@kicp.uchicago.edu> <250b853a-b436-0e99-b05c-9abd6b6019ef@panix.com> <20200611070630.2cb42786.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200611091449.383e1d83@archlinux> <53a6833e-db63-2395-4d2e-f05a9b1fb269@boxsci.com> <20200611112418.0bb0c896b685c84ed8d6a8f6@sohara.org> <20200611135639.0c07500e@archlinux> <36a71c5c-ccf0-d28d-c6c1-1d9c80873a12@yuripv.dev> <20200611143046.2f97b54a@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200611143046.2f97b54a@archlinux> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 09:08:33 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: freebsd vs. netbsd To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49jPLl4Nxtz4ZkN X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=vGziR8qA; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::12c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.77 / 15.00]; SEM_URIBL_FRESH15(3.00)[yuripv.dev:email]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[gmail.com,none]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.11)[1.108]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.84)[0.836]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.82)[0.824]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::12c:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 13:08:48 -0000 On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 8:31 AM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 08:15:04 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > >On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 8:03 AM Yuri Pankov wrote: > > > >> Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > >> > On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 06:49:47 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > >> >> As to the comment of how common top posting is or not almost > >> >> every web based MUA defaults to it > >> > > >> > Could you mention a few FLOSS BSD or Linux MUAs that by default > >> > sets the cursor above the quoted text? > >> > >> FWIW, Thunderbird does that by default in new accounts, you have to > >> configure it to do otherwise. > > > >So does every other GUI/web MUA. I don't know why it is so hard for > >the FreeBSD community to get that conventions have changed (for better > >or worse I don't know but they have). I have even had people complain > >about not top-posting because "I can't find your reply" and thus > >almost the entire world (except for a few technical mailing lists) > >either accepts or encourages top-posting. > > I seriously doubt that there are a lot GUI or TUI MUAs available for > BSD or Linux that do that by default. Just mentioning one, Thunderbird > and then claiming every other does, too, is weak. I'm not aware of one. > SquirrelMail for one (I didn't look very deep into what *EVERY* web client does but the first one I found does it and so do all the hosted ones like gmail/hotmail/etc. so I would say a 100% hit rate is pretty clear.... so I challenge you to find a web one that doesn't do it by default [being able to adjust the settings is not the same as "by default"]). Evolution doesn't, Sylpheed doesn't, Claws-Mail doesn't. IIRC KMail and > Wanderlust didn't when I used them. Probably no other does, I just > mentioned those I'm still using or I used a while back. > If someone is top posting out of not knowing list convention do you really expect them to have also fully configured anything more then a browser on FreeBSD (and that's if they are lucky)? -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org