From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Dec 3 17:27:58 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53664E57633 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 17:27:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4737FAA2 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 17:27:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 3E96DE57632; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 17:27:58 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E351E57631 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 17:27:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 198967FAA1 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 17:27:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3C77BB27; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 11:27:56 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 11:27:55 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Hans Petter Selasky , Eitan Adler , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: bitrot [was: Deprecating / Removing floppy drive support] Message-ID: <20171203172755.GA4210@lonesome.com> References: <43746890-e60a-5c8f-4c77-bbfe9a5a6aa9@selasky.org> <201712031655.vB3GtIME041023@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201712031655.vB3GtIME041023@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2017 17:27:58 -0000 On Sun, Dec 03, 2017 at 08:55:18AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > my observation is that FreeBSD is a lot of new toys that work fairly > well and a collection of rotting bits that get the axe every few > years. Having spent 10+ years triaging PRs I can tell you for certain that there are large parts of the src tree* that no one works on. (For instance, if we use "bin" as a rough proxy for "userland", there are 1668 userland PRs.) I had a breakdown of kern PRs into "subsystems" which I kept going for a few years, but it bitrotted (was GNATS-specific). It never really got any uptake, but I found it educational anyways: https://people.freebsd.org/~linimon/studies/prs/prs_for_all_groups.html For instance, it led me to believe that large chunks of "libraries" and "audio" were not actively maintained. But beside from features missing from the tools, we have a large, open, problem with "someone needs to take ownership of the xyz code". I would be happy to hear constructive ideas. (Readers should be warned that based on past experience I no longer believe that "well, someone should just do that" leads anywhere.) obdisclaimer: I am not trying to discourage the people who currently actively work on maintenance by pointing to the overall numbers; in fact, I appreciate their efforts. I just want to know how we can clone them. mcl * The ports tree does a little better by assigning maintainers. It turns out that most, but not all, of the key components have at least a putative maintainer listed. It's good but insufficient.