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([2607:fb90:82a9:a99e:b851:5f32:3f1d:bd9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p24sm101667074pfk.155.2019.01.05.11.16.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 05 Jan 2019 11:16:05 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components From: Enji Cooper X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16C104) In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 11:16:04 -0800 Cc: Mark Blackman , Hackers freeBSD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <451787DE-0659-4F7D-B011-904F90866DDB@gmail.com> References: <201901021829.x02IT4Kc064169@slippy.cwsent.com> <361CCB81-AEB6-4EAC-9604-CD8F4C63948C@gmail.com> <6DF138FB-E730-477A-A992-8FE1944DDE94@exonetric.com> To: Igor Mozolevsky X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 236E18EF44 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=pm5OJDii; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of yaneurabeya@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::635 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=yaneurabeya@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.87 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.937,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[5.3.6.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.42)[ip: (-8.15), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.19), asn: 15169(-1.66), country: US(-0.08)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2019 19:16:08 -0000 > On Jan 3, 2019, at 12:24, Igor Mozolevsky wrote: ... > And by what metric is that "safety" measured, how does one measure > "safety" objectively? To me, that sounds like a techie version of > virtue-signalling... Even the Rust-clan seem to be rather confused > about it: https://doc.rust-lang.org/nomicon/meet-safe-and-unsafe.html It=E2=80=99s pretty clear to me what the author means: rust features safe an= d unsafe extensions, much like C++, Java, Perl, python, tcl, etc. Generally s= peaking, =E2=80=9Cunsafe=E2=80=9D language features are those that require a= dditional care, like using malloc/free appropriately, avoiding global state,= locking resources as needed, etc. > Btw, Java is "safe" too, and it's been around for *much* longer! Not necessarily true. Are you aware of how native java extensions work? Java as a language was written to be generic/platform agnostic, however in o= rder to be useful, Java requires platform extensions. As such, Java supports= developers writing glue code in C/C++ (like python extensions), which can h= ave a host of potential issues with memory leaks, concurrency safety, etc, i= n addition to potential issues with security sandboxing and the like. With the number of zero-day bugs in java that have been in the language in t= he past few years, I don=E2=80=99t trust the language=E2=80=99s sense of saf= ety in terms of memory management and sandboxing in the JVM. Thanks, -Enji=