From nobody Sat Apr 15 00:20:53 2023 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4PyvBN0qcbz457N6 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 00:21:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw1-x1136.google.com (mail-yw1-x1136.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1136]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4PyvBM65Qdz3wQP for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 00:21:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yw1-x1136.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-54fb615ac3dso157381777b3.2 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 17:21:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681518090; x=1684110090; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YtkLpllzGw0K3TBLJpgCVL7KTTOXuJnP1z8bWQ7oAMA=; b=qneTo3O9tAEPuBwBLuS1DGl5GBlvYjrgJUP8tf+Lgn+c/gPS9gESz+XObRY4gveYXx b5UtWRJarYOEUHmMcC597cxnpUrwdkMOppHHFd1W/9jTvyLsYIWeBFWohZNbDljIkxwO lFxtx73pEi+/oP8huyJ1ryS87U3b9yXEvR0gxcqHuqlR/SOXjGbBEz/5f1GAHbQTVuRI vNF+B/4YIQzj9MdY2FnzxDUfWPUGvCynvMGfCIG1hKNDswfwwWuQsI/08h0EU9ZbHbj9 bEkeHJFFVuUcpbwh5ZlEwzKgFxp88gs99E2OgCGmppLGbbhSRPEBAVqw4rAE+NAHakqW fjMA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681518090; x=1684110090; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=YtkLpllzGw0K3TBLJpgCVL7KTTOXuJnP1z8bWQ7oAMA=; b=FobO4rOIi8e20JBMp/MQBgv1DVp/TK7zMnvgwpgGQYPncB2YjCqTinewC+ZH+hJ38k PDF8OKYLKyrFmOzmKBqIMbdZOGsIFM6hTvQGTICTJa40xSTDIPexMwtNrZ3iq5uvx0d3 3yKAtgFQM3UspuN37FwespcTDn97RvujBlvoi5G7z7Jhg9RAdBesvyajNGpl6H2YZZMI ivT2ZipS5U0DmhRGXXxiEUe5WqnZqWV3090Q2gPzarTxB/uCQ9+u1U5v2GFOrArK0HTd HXUq238kvb4JaNZLk11s2YqsJZCO+qUuMqOw+0qrZ5HVw1x8l8qwyuAKW1VcakRl1P5q dtPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9f10JHCbIDx2UnLm7UM+E4Fv5GQH8Kk3LJpIG/47SEsXH0JjWFx nNF3X1ZlVLGB9bnmHuMZubsU10Y79QU+saxjL7k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350ZJA9uJ5vgHzthnRFL81NKLSp71jDTNvsS2g4JQj7BOn7Od3e8RwMVHJLl0eBhrr3gPD24PGtBrtcaVq6WPG7E= X-Received: by 2002:a81:4005:0:b0:540:e744:13ae with SMTP id l5-20020a814005000000b00540e74413aemr4988168ywn.3.1681518089963; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 17:21:29 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <543289768.3317542.1681394425362@mail.yahoo.com> <887947753.4080046.1681511775374@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mario Marietto Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 02:20:53 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Docker To: Tomek CEDRO Cc: Paul Pathiakis , "questions@freebsd.org" , infoomatic Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006f8edf05f954f01d" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4PyvBM65Qdz3wQP X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --0000000000006f8edf05f954f01d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't consider what the other people want to do or not. There are a lot of developers that opted for non standard solutions and generally this is not a good idea,in the same way and for the same reasons of the closed source code. Infact I don't see a big difference between the choice to not share source code and the choice to not adopt a non-interoperable technology. The mindset behind these choices have the same matrix. Since they act like this,should we do the same ? Interoperability is a good thing and should be followed regardless of what the other developers want or don't want to do. On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 1:21=E2=80=AFAM Tomek CEDRO wrot= e: > On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 12:46=E2=80=AFAM Mario Marietto wrote: > > So,let me understand : docker images aren't compatible with FreeBSD. > Imagine that the FreeBSD jails will be not compatible with Linux. Wow,thi= s > is true interoperability. > > Mario, (Free)BSD is Unix derivative and thus standard compliant, look > at sockets, IPv4, IPv6, Jails, ZFS, etc. > > It was Linux folks who invent things that are only compatible with > Linux and only until new fancy pancy Linux only revelation is > introduced then those solutions are not even Linux compatible anymore. > "Progress by Enforced Changes"^TM. It was Docker that did not take > other OS into consideration at design stage. It was SystemD that did > not take other OS into consideration at design stage, and now lots of > application follow that systemd core dependency making them hardly > portable to any other OS. What about kernel API changes with every > minor release that started around 2.4.11 (I was using Linux 2.0.36 / > ~1998 .. 2.4.12 / ~2007)? Look at DRM mess it introduced to graphics > driver world. How would you call that interoperability / portability / > long term maintenance? Linux by design is self-incompatible. Do you > really want us to to follow that "fashions" with a life span shorter > than a yogurt? > > There are reasons for people avoiding Linux. > > -- > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info > --=20 Mario. --0000000000006f8edf05f954f01d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't consider what the other people want to do= or not. There are a=20 lot of developers that opted for non standard solutions and generally this = is not a good idea,in the same way and for the same reasons of the closed s= ource code. Infact I don't see a big difference between the choice to n= ot share source code and the choice to not adopt a non-interoperable technology. The mindset behind these cho= ices have the same matrix. Since they=20 act like this,should we do the same ? Interoperability is a good thing=20 and should be followed regardless of what the other developers want or=20 don't want to do.


On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 1:21=E2= =80=AFAM Tomek CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info> wrote:
On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 12:46=E2=80=AFAM Mario Marietto= wrote:
> So,let me understand : docker images aren't compatible with FreeBS= D. Imagine that the FreeBSD jails will be not compatible with Linux. Wow,th= is is true interoperability.

Mario, (Free)BSD is Unix derivative and thus standard compliant, look
at sockets, IPv4, IPv6, Jails, ZFS, etc.

It was Linux folks who invent things that are only compatible with
Linux and only until new fancy pancy Linux only revelation is
introduced then those solutions are not even Linux compatible anymore.
"Progress by Enforced Changes"^TM. It was Docker that did not tak= e
other OS into consideration at design stage. It was SystemD that did
not take other OS into consideration at design stage, and now lots of
application follow that systemd core dependency making them hardly
portable to any other OS. What about kernel API changes with every
minor release that started around 2.4.11 (I was using Linux 2.0.36 /
~1998 .. 2.4.12 / ~2007)?=C2=A0 Look at DRM mess it introduced to graphics<= br> driver world. How would you call that interoperability / portability /
long term maintenance? Linux by design is self-incompatible. Do you
really want us to to follow that "fashions" with a life span shor= ter
than a yogurt?

There are reasons for people avoiding Linux.

--
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info


--
Mario.
--0000000000006f8edf05f954f01d--