From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 9 19:31:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF9116A41F; Fri, 9 Dec 2005 19:31:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dukecmmtar02.coxmail.com (dukecmmtar02.coxmail.com [68.99.120.49]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30ABE43D5F; Fri, 9 Dec 2005 19:31:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from sleuth ([64.58.171.89]) by dukecmmtar02.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051209193238.BZST26756.dukecmmtar02.coxmail.com@sleuth>; Fri, 9 Dec 2005 14:32:38 -0500 From: "vizion" To: "'Michael C. Shultz'" , Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 11:31:48 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c5fcf7$3333ed90$59ab3a40@sleuth> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200512091032.29029.ringworm01@gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Cc: 'Peter Jeremy' , 'Doug Barton' Subject: RE: Upgrading 5.3 > 6.0 buildworld failure now in libmagic X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 19:31:50 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael C. Shultz [mailto:ringworm01@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 10:32 AM > To: vizion > Cc: 'Peter Jeremy'; 'Doug Barton' > Subject: Re: Upgrading 5.3 > 6.0 buildworld failure now in libmagic >=20 > On Friday 09 December 2005 09:39, vizion wrote: > > > Vison, you are much better at writting florid prose on how and why > > > FreeBSD is > > > such an awful OS run by a team of Techies who care nothing about = end > > > users needs than you are at reading and comprehending simple > > > instructions. > > > > > > What you write is almost believable, your writing skill is very = good > and > > > convincing, only in this particualr case I know you are completely > wrong > > > and > > > your failure to follow the simplest advice is why your machine is = now > non > > > operational. Quit crying about non relevent issues and = concentrate on > > > solving your real problem - getting that darn machine to boot up. > > > > > > One last thought, name one OS that has better documentation than > FreeBSD > > > please, comercial or otherwise. Maybe there is such a beast, if = so I > am > > > very > > > curious to know what it is called. > > > > Mike > > > > Rather than replying to the list I am emailing you direct and cc = onl;y > the > > individuals to whom you cc'd your original. > > > > Frankly I never ceased to be amazed at diversionary personalized = attacks > > that seem to be a regular occurrence on freebsd lists whenever = someone > > makes friendly but critical observations about freebsd. There is a > > touchyness there which is a big deterrent to the engagement of = others > and a > > tendency to paternalize which, on rare occasions, is an unspeakably = ugly > > aspect of some freebsd interactions. > > > > I do not know the root cause of such over-defensiveness I am = constantly > > amazed when old timers do not recognize it. It is time to grow up = and I > > hope something will happen to discourage people from arguing ad > personam. > > > > Your remarks seem to have been written with the deliberate intention = of > > attacking the messenger rather than discussing the message. You did = not > > even aspire to achieving accuracy. > > > > The fact the my system did upgrade successfully from 5.3 to 5.4 by > > following your advice does not give you the right to make false > assumptions > > about a failed upgrade from 5.4 to 6.0 that is due to a combination = of > > events that have nothing whatsoever to do with the topic under > discussion, > > advice that has been given or even freebsd or its documentation. It > turns > > out that a motherboard hardware failure was the casue of the upgrade > > failure.. hence I have to do a total rebuild because the motherboard = is > no > > longer available. >=20 >=20 > And this is your excuse for attacking the FreeBSD organization? =20 No and I have nott attacked "the organization". The c ritic of the way = in which documentation is not integrated ionto the freebsd development = cycle was made long before there was any motherboard failure. I do wish you = would stick to the facts.=20 I'm sure > everyone feels bad for you that you have to get a new motherboard. I = am > confused as to how better coordination between developers and = technical > writers could have prevented it from failing though. I have not made that suggestion - only you have put forward that notion = -- come on laugh a bit - you are really being a bit wild and cranky over = this . The motherboard failure occurred after the discussion on documentation not before you really are missing the point here. > > > > As for the use of perjorative terminology (florid prose) and false > > accusations - I am really personally very disappointed in your > reactions. > > > > What you seemed to be saying was that you were unable to counter my > > suggestions which were so unwelcome to you that you chose to attack = me > > personally. >=20 > Your suggestions were irrelevent to the problem at hand.=20 My suggestions are very relevant to the documentary errors, omissions = and lack of documentary integration that waste much of the time of many end users.=20 =20 My suggestions were, it is true, were off the original topic and came = about as a response to someone else who complained about freebsd documentation = and I responded to him.=20 He was strongly critical because the documentation stated that direct upgrade from 5.3 to 6.00 was possible when, as you pointed out, it was = not.=20 I suggest you reread the whole thread with care and look at the sequence = of events instead of massaging a false interpretation events to satisfy a desire to argue add personam.. > tecnical > help that is one thing, if you want to improve documentaion that is > another > topic with it's own mail list. I see this as more diversionary BS you could have said: "Hey david -- sorry I should not have jumped to conclusions" > > > > I am disappointed that you react that way to me and even more = concerned > > that those who have been around far less years than I will be > intimidated > > by this kind of BS > > > > Please grow up > > > > david >=20 > One last point, either remove me from the reply to list or place the > maillist > back on it, thank you. I think you owe me an apology - but I doubt I will get it. OK I will send this to the list >=20 > -Mike