From owner-freebsd-wireless@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 23 18:28:24 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA1069D; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 18:28:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-x231.google.com (mail-qa0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD8A123A2; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 18:28:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f49.google.com with SMTP id i13so752624qae.1 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:28:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ThiEjRZ29rm9UddR2Yl63Z3pFUYh97xPpEKArXt4yE8=; b=0yh2npoCvd715zfOckRRp0+zOl8sBInUwN9630uhe6lUa3kS5O5LiOapLXdVJfpxRj BJd+tcZ2bB+ZYmRK/wHM4PnENIypP6j7tePmZRx4iQ2c9DkMvpepfq4e7+wkLx4DbIIm tqWLCEVdFgCVUE+SBijnUmWXrEAxvj+lM75OqUtJruTzLoSqBeusav3HxphGCNc8ijPa 3bGqcebHcEdzk+2fB96uGDfGPOJQSR41gHMA3SY7qdq9RpXSbsT6N3JNjrWXAujAJY5p U4rT74/WkFMJUeWBf0syaCuvbb5bE+e/PvgWlUjRMPjUYDyViiz1rRqssB9cIvjfiUlg KJVA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.36.201 with SMTP id u9mr5857845qad.76.1382552902777; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.207.66 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.207.66 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:28:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5268124E.4040906@mu.org> References: <5265878B.1050809@yandex.ru> <201310212146.r9LLkqZ1044966@fire.js.berklix.net> <201310231023.32351.jhb@freebsd.org> <526810DB.20705@mu.org> <5268124E.4040906@mu.org> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:28:22 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: PTIL4LuzBqKRWiWHpq_Bbj_LT8w Message-ID: Subject: Re: [rfc] removing the NDISulator From: Adrian Chadd To: Alfred Perlstein Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org, freebsd-current X-BeenThere: freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions of 802.11 stack, tools device driver development." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 18:28:24 -0000 Because the Linux stuff is mostly very GPL. Adrian On Oct 23, 2013 2:15 PM, "Alfred Perlstein" wrote: > On 10/23/13 11:11 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > >> On 23 October 2013 11:09, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >> >> >> Eh, having taken a stab at porting the bwl blob already, I would strongly >>> >>>> oppose removing NDIS. If you do that I will just stop using my netbook >>>> with a Broadcom part altogether as I wouldn't be able to use it to try >>>> to >>>> test bwl changes. The NDIS thing is a bit hackish, but it is quite >>>> useful >>>> for a lot of folks. >>>> >>>> I have to agree. Deprecation != motivation. >>>> >>> >> I can pull out examples of this not holding true: >> >> * all the giant locking in drivers >> * all the giant locking in VFS >> >> People did pop up and claim ownership of things they cared about. Some >> stuff died, some stuff didn't. There was enough of a motivation by us to >> kill giant off in these pathways so things could continue to evolve. We >> didn't leave the GIANT crutch in forever. >> >> >> Sure, however those drivers and vfs systems were not sustainable and > holding the kernel back. > > What part of the NDISulator actually holds the system back? I'm saying > that it seems as if it was conjecture rather than a need. Is the > NDISulator giant locked? > > Also why the interest in writing drivers so much? Being able to leverage > other platform drivers is pretty neat and saves us a ton of work. > > -- > Alfred Perlstein > >