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Date:      Wed, 4 Jan 2012 21:01:44 +0000
From:      Peter Harrison <four.harrisons@googlemail.com>
To:        Da Rock <freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au>
Cc:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
Message-ID:  <904803AA-31CD-41EC-927A-51A9EB49DEB6@googlemail.com>
In-Reply-To: <4F03A678.6050903@herveybayaustralia.com.au>
References:  <CAFpTYWM3ppJsVo-qZC=OXWHW1U5zAt3y5m==6hFw3JQNH%2B5NAg@mail.gmail.com> <4F02A3CE.7020404@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120103071028.4964dd33@scorpio> <4F030E00.5020806@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <Pine.GSO.4.64.1201031101580.7621@age7.nber.org> <4F038F8F.3090701@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <alpine.LFD.2.00.1201031922400.26468@nber4.nber.org> <4F03A678.6050903@herveybayaustralia.com.au>

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On 4 Jan 2012, at 01:08, Da Rock wrote:

> On 01/04/12 10:38, Daniel Feenberg wrote:
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote:
>>=20
>>> On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000
>>>>>> Da Rock articulated:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8)  essentially accomplish what =
the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1:
>>>>=20
>>>>    =
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-s=
etup.html
>>>>=20
>>>> or the man page for ndiscvt:
>>>>=20
>>>>  http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=3D8&topic=3Dndiscvt
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect =
of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose =
manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond =
licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the =
distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form?
>>=20
>>> Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :)
>>=20
>> At
>>=20
>>  =
http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.php?title=3DCatego=
ry:USB
>>=20
>> almost 800 compatible devices are listed. Not everything, but I have =
found that a willingness to spend a few dollars on a different card =
helps immensely in enjoying FreeBSD and Linux. For me at least it is =
easier to find a compatible card than to write a compatible driver.
> Indeed :)
>=20
> I did notice that the card in question wasn't on that list. But my own =
experience with ndiswrapper and wifi cards were far less than =
satisfactory- the firmware always got in the road. But I may have just =
been too stupid at the time :)
>> I would also observe that most people involved with computers, =
whether as users or developers, have little symphathy for people with =
different needs from the device. This is a great impediment to progress. =
It is a mistake to assume that because you don't need something, another =
person's desire for it is illegitimate. In this case, I fully agree that =
it is an injustice that hardware vendors do not supply FreeBSD drivers, =
but that does not mean that users requiring such drivers are immoral or =
of poor character, and therefore to be ignored or insulted. There is =
little that FreeBSD coders and users can do about that injustice =
directly, however it is within their power to mitigate it with the NDIS =
wrapper. If that wrapper allows another user to enter the FOSS world, =
that will (in the fullness of time) contribute to reforming the vendor.
> No they are absolutely not of poor character, I agree. Some messages =
can be misconstrued, though, in that the replies can be terse and more =
logical than sympathetic. Sometimes it is easier to replace with a =
different card than flog a dead horse, although a user may take offense =
for emotional or financial reasons more than logical.
>=20
> Mitigation is a difficult path as I have found personally, although =
NDIS helps immensely with wired nics (not so much of a problem these =
days), and I believe Luigi Rizzo's work with the linuxulator and drivers =
is to be applauded ten fold. It takes a great deal of time though- I put =
forward the idea when I was still a BSD pup not entirely realising the =
challenges :) Luigi (and his colleagues) has been working hard ever =
since to facilitate the more challenging aspects of multimedia drivers =
(whether or not that had to do with my comments or not, I don't know).

Da Rock,

I've been using ndis drivers successfully with a Broadcom chip in my =
Lenovo s10-e since I bought it some years ago - to the extent that I've =
not yet switched over to the native drivers now available.

I didn't find using ndisgen too problematic. Just a case of finding the =
right driver files and following the manpage. I'd strongly recommend =
trying it in preference to a usb stick (been there, done that) or buying =
new hardware - although I'd agree that depending on the model changing a =
mini-PCI card isn't necessarily that difficult (I changed it t an Intel =
card in my other Dell laptop some time ago - remember to attach the =
internal aerial cable!).

Regards,




Peter Harrison.


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