From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 4 21:01:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACBE81065670 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2012 21:01:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from four.harrisons@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8788FC1B for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2012 21:01:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werb13 with SMTP id b13so15614281wer.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 13:01:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=Qdjiy1yfMFa2LTQL7V76gll49KJDhju0tvnRk4unDeM=; b=x2Hi675zme/9tObQFkKQark9Y8h/Surw06fXMHwc0Ql2830QOah39PO/Kpbh3zDTfr VCpdX0qHiVomXvAdIGmVSRd89vvozElQMGxWkoQQQuS3M0J2LrV4YajQWdu9pZgDr7qF 7aPto1HwnxCsQ2aZtRQ+OKcel7TxBs4fgRe88= Received: by 10.216.139.222 with SMTP id c72mr38551243wej.4.1325710907199; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 13:01:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (client-81-105-212-132.mcr-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net. [81.105.212.132]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ei9sm137168294wid.0.2012.01.04.13.01.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jan 2012 13:01:46 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Peter Harrison In-Reply-To: <4F03A678.6050903@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 21:01:44 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <904803AA-31CD-41EC-927A-51A9EB49DEB6@googlemail.com> References: <4F02A3CE.7020404@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120103071028.4964dd33@scorpio> <4F030E00.5020806@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4F038F8F.3090701@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4F03A678.6050903@herveybayaustralia.com.au> To: Da Rock X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 21:01:49 -0000 On 4 Jan 2012, at 01:08, Da Rock wrote: > On 01/04/12 10:38, Daniel Feenberg wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: >>=20 >>> On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 >>>>>> Da Rock articulated: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what = the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: >>>>=20 >>>> = http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-s= etup.html >>>>=20 >>>> or the man page for ndiscvt: >>>>=20 >>>> http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=3D8&topic=3Dndiscvt >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect = of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose = manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond = licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the = distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? >>=20 >>> Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :) >>=20 >> At >>=20 >> = http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.php?title=3DCatego= ry:USB >>=20 >> almost 800 compatible devices are listed. Not everything, but I have = found that a willingness to spend a few dollars on a different card = helps immensely in enjoying FreeBSD and Linux. For me at least it is = easier to find a compatible card than to write a compatible driver. > Indeed :) >=20 > I did notice that the card in question wasn't on that list. But my own = experience with ndiswrapper and wifi cards were far less than = satisfactory- the firmware always got in the road. But I may have just = been too stupid at the time :) >> I would also observe that most people involved with computers, = whether as users or developers, have little symphathy for people with = different needs from the device. This is a great impediment to progress. = It is a mistake to assume that because you don't need something, another = person's desire for it is illegitimate. In this case, I fully agree that = it is an injustice that hardware vendors do not supply FreeBSD drivers, = but that does not mean that users requiring such drivers are immoral or = of poor character, and therefore to be ignored or insulted. There is = little that FreeBSD coders and users can do about that injustice = directly, however it is within their power to mitigate it with the NDIS = wrapper. If that wrapper allows another user to enter the FOSS world, = that will (in the fullness of time) contribute to reforming the vendor. > No they are absolutely not of poor character, I agree. Some messages = can be misconstrued, though, in that the replies can be terse and more = logical than sympathetic. Sometimes it is easier to replace with a = different card than flog a dead horse, although a user may take offense = for emotional or financial reasons more than logical. >=20 > Mitigation is a difficult path as I have found personally, although = NDIS helps immensely with wired nics (not so much of a problem these = days), and I believe Luigi Rizzo's work with the linuxulator and drivers = is to be applauded ten fold. It takes a great deal of time though- I put = forward the idea when I was still a BSD pup not entirely realising the = challenges :) Luigi (and his colleagues) has been working hard ever = since to facilitate the more challenging aspects of multimedia drivers = (whether or not that had to do with my comments or not, I don't know). Da Rock, I've been using ndis drivers successfully with a Broadcom chip in my = Lenovo s10-e since I bought it some years ago - to the extent that I've = not yet switched over to the native drivers now available. I didn't find using ndisgen too problematic. Just a case of finding the = right driver files and following the manpage. I'd strongly recommend = trying it in preference to a usb stick (been there, done that) or buying = new hardware - although I'd agree that depending on the model changing a = mini-PCI card isn't necessarily that difficult (I changed it t an Intel = card in my other Dell laptop some time ago - remember to attach the = internal aerial cable!). Regards, Peter Harrison. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"