From owner-freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 6 21:18:51 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD5003B0 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2013 21:18:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ia0-x22a.google.com (mail-ia0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c02::22a]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76FA517C for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2013 21:18:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ia0-f170.google.com with SMTP id h8so4209662iaa.29 for ; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 14:18:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=pyDnMqj0l8zT4dO5X/ch0U4vHJJ4wnYdGIxj+Kw3BU0=; b=R+xo7hdJVZGEugAkbkWlZ1ADOnw6BjSUi2GfdoJLcoOyOumq74kpqy4XEs22w6bCyf 3kORKExLtaokenFnbEmGPG31m8XKkTxKcF6iFheTyCso3El+WF2C6/GBC8NrlisrLtXO l2AgpNK9Sz2/XWQYFvl3pFH06pjRZIB0rJTvBVUoDmTrDqLAFc81jDhcV0eZZ4uwHvF+ wtF+Qxbb4FXrgw+eiONSQ57tpX0m9Eb0v51UXVJoWarSEQbdG9Wfi1b/I8kEzVRZMP0N Vcc0H3WM5YLSkXD/2+dsB3WnhAVWagDWywQxWOBEkyUzD+HU1jGntC4fG2AaIDRnkFGL PbxA== X-Received: by 10.50.136.138 with SMTP id qa10mr2864066igb.74.1365283131157; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 14:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 53.imp.bsdimp.com (50-78-194-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.78.194.198]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ie7sm8146674igb.1.2013.04.06.14.18.49 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 06 Apr 2013 14:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: "Beyond Buildworld" (was Re: RFC: "Crochet" build tool) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 15:18:48 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5DFA61DB-70E4-4C3D-ACA0-995A175706C8@neville-neil.com> <5151B454.9090402@ceetonetechnology.com> <1CBF1416-3237-4DCE-8D61-7E998265C887@neville-neil.com> <1364311809.36972.27.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <5151D045.80305@thieprojects.ch> <5151D9DB.7050001@thieprojects.ch> <167CF57D-01E3-4857-BF0E-C40B00FED226@netgate.com> <515ADB81.7090908@freebsd.org> <515DF177.9060907@freebsd.org> <4DC4C47C-D503-4155-8FAF-6D5C88D8F67C@freebsd.org> <8FCD7391-B9E3-478A-86E8-4414F750804D@freebsd.org> <50CC112D-2B90-4E66-9D5F-829274D041D7@bsdimp.com> To: Adrian Chadd X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlIoghxmsps/HZMThTk4coR5fU5a5gQB8FRe3iMP6Frw5rAI0T4Ivs4XzJqCP+VhQZT/hzx Cc: "freebsd-arm@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the StrongARM Processor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 21:18:51 -0000 On Apr 6, 2013, at 3:09 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > FreeBSD doesn't necessarily need to support all of that, at least just = yet. I tend to agree, but only to a point. We should have a long-range plan = in mind, as well as a long term destination. We need not hit that with = the first iteration, but each iteration should get us closer. > I think we'd be in a good position if we had build scripts and base > support to build a variety of target system filesystem configurations > and images; then leave it up to an external project (which may or may > not _be_ at freebsd.org, but it doesn't have to be in /usr/src) that > builds the platform specific stuff. That way we don't get bogged down > with bootloaders and such at this stage. Yes. We don't want to be in the boot loader business. The board should = provide. Unfortunately, most board providers don't yet support the = callback API that we need to support the ubldr. We should accept that = there will be a wide range of versions and possibly even different = loaders like barebox. Linux is able to cope by having a very = standardized interface. We don't have that now, and we should adopt one. = We're currently not likely large enough to do anything other than the = Linux interface. > Ideally i'd like to see all of those bootloaders and tools in > /usr/src, just like we do for booting i386/amd64/etc systems. That way > we _do_ have a nice, tightly integrated system. But I think that's a > stretch goal. I'd opt for a ports solution to the bare-metal loader. The experience = that we had with AT91 suggests supporting a wide range of boards with = the bare-metal loaders is very hard, and we don't have the bandwidth to = do this. Warner