From owner-freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 27 18:28:14 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jail@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AFE6AAE for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 18:28:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cosmo.uchicago.edu (cosmo.uchicago.edu [128.135.52.97]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079611CD for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 18:28:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by cosmo.uchicago.edu (Postfix, from userid 48) id 839A9CB8C9C; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:28:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from 128.135.70.2 (SquirrelMail authenticated user valeri) by cosmo.uchicago.edu with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:28:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <13934.128.135.70.2.1422383293.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> In-Reply-To: <54C7D371.9010609@erdgeist.org> References: <20150127012347.GA4940@lonesome.com> <20150127141239.V77290@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <54C7958B.40007@gmail.com> <54C7C828.4070703@erdgeist.org> <14943.128.135.70.2.1422381245.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> <54C7D371.9010609@erdgeist.org> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:28:13 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: preferred jail management tool From: "Valeri Galtsev" To: "Dirk Engling" Reply-To: galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.8-5.el5.centos.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: jail@freebsd.org, "Michael W. Lucas" X-BeenThere: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about FreeBSD jail\(8\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 18:28:14 -0000 On Tue, January 27, 2015 12:05 pm, Dirk Engling wrote: > On 27.01.15 18:54, Valeri Galtsev wrote: > > >> I for one would prefer this ("use vi to edit config files" which are >> plain >> human readable ASCII text). And I will be extremely displeased if config >> files become XML or any other format designed for fancy GUI presentation >> of plain information. And if I'm forced to use these GUI tools. This >> basically what happened in Linux recently with systemd forced down the >> throats of people. This caused new wave of refugees from Linux to other >> systems FreeBSD being one of them. (I myself am a refugee from Linux: >> some >> 5 or 6 years ago I started migrating most important servers to FreeBSD, >> workstations in our Department stay Linux though...) > > Did you take a look into the jail.conf format, recently? The mess you > describe is exactly what we're stuck with, now. A structured file format > you're supposed to edit with vi (and not mess up the structure) due to > the lack of proper shell tools to manipulate it with. > > With the old approach "each jail config is contained in its own > jail_JAILNAME_* variable name space", we could at least distribute > config in different files and declare some of them being in another > realm, like ezjail did. > You could edit them by hand and more or less > efficiently manipulate them in a tool. > The last is exactly what hardly anybody will object. I must confess all my jails are still on FreeBSD 9.3, configuration is in /etc/rc.conf (jails set up without using special tools or scripts, just by following FreeBSD excellent handbook - "by the book" ;-) I just took a quick look into man jail.conf. All still is plain ASCII text; different syntax, but it doesn't call for any complaint in me. What I described (systemd has many controversy sides, I mentioned only format of config file) is different: imagine rc.conf or jail.conf all wrapped into XML tags inside, which is pure junk obscuring everything, and serving mere purpose of GUI tool nicely presenting that information. THAT is a mess! jail.conf, though different in syntax from what I have in /etc/rc.conf, is still OK for me. I just got scared by someone saying what sounded to me like: I want GUI config tool, I don't want to edit with vi (or any plain text editor) plain text config file. Next step will be config file is not human readable. Which scared me to death, so I decided to speak up. Valeri ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++