From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 9 17:19:15 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2B162D9 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2013 17:19:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f52.google.com (mail-oa0-f52.google.com [209.85.219.52]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1B01E55 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2013 17:19:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id g12so8338701oah.11 for ; Tue, 09 Jul 2013 10:19:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=lpG5wUPiQn9SAF5i9f8YCfp5SMgMZuHKYW8iEDQDJJA=; b=Y3kuyM/E+9eBKTfZCv5h3IFU7xPBfp7q+fnEGqy8bNDSQGlVxLXI3O00rHS9R/sFC1 ebwxYJo6LPrGjGieCnlSc0Q9O8GN4GWSiDvIyalNTM0LqUj5rfOOTdbrDqEmp5HkbPI9 eI9h2tARuacFT3x3xWkMk5egpvl5D20ggOqC94xkdu6TzuXvN041H1TPtIASSgfXt6cP kOAkEDW8/mS+B/jay8ehF0rBijpT6QOXvL0aTBv+LEF7/5TVlxVfHxdyqvLe9WxZk/dD yDEjDlnlc21GQuIjHPuiXOtxnIbFNxB02i+SllGpKwCWrlkXVnJqX0CPKQaRhzxFW2P4 ZyPA== X-Received: by 10.182.87.73 with SMTP id v9mr24834377obz.90.1373390005231; Tue, 09 Jul 2013 10:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monkey-bot.int.fusionio.com ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id o4sm39022323obl.7.2013.07.09.10.13.23 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 09 Jul 2013 10:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: libutil in Debian Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <20130709165939.GP91021@kib.kiev.ua> Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 11:13:23 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0657575A-BF3A-486F-9582-C01E0FD97E38@bsdimp.com> References: <20130709113553.GP67810@FreeBSD.org> <20130709165939.GP91021@kib.kiev.ua> To: Konstantin Belousov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlVWa4gPnxEdEHhRXsoushy4RN7oOThYrDFLssE8WspyC2Yu29ElnZD3Si4xBaLD6A33yX9 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Gleb Smirnoff , Robert Millan X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 17:19:15 -0000 On Jul 9, 2013, at 10:59 AM, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Tue, Jul 09, 2013 at 05:05:00PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote: >> Hi Gleb, >>=20 >> 2013/7/9 Gleb Smirnoff : >>> With all respect to GNU and Debian the libutil in BSD appeared in = 1988, >>> and the fact that GNU has taken that name in 1996 isn't reason for = BSD >>> to change name. >>=20 >> Thanks for pointing this out. >>=20 >> Please note that my request is only based on practical grounds. It >> shouldn't be interpreted as implying endorsement on Glibc's use of >> libutil name. >>=20 >> Historically, Glibc maintainer has been very difficult to deal with. >> This has affected non-Linux ports of Glibc as well. In contrast, >> FreeBSD community may or may not agree with proposals but is at least >> open to discuss things. This (rather than "fairness") is the reason I >> try to work things out here and not there. >>=20 >> Please take it as a compliment rather than as offence :-) >>=20 >>> Also, FreeBSD is just one of the BSD descendants, and all of them = share >>> the libutil. >>=20 >> So, I take it that the change I'm proposing could have disruptive = effects. >>=20 >> I do think there are long-term advantages for FreeBSD and the other >> BSD descendants in making it easy for their APIs to be deployed >> elsewhere. I mean, in terms of portability. >>=20 >> However I'm clearly biased so I'd rather not insist on this. I leave >> it for you to judge. >=20 > Renaming the libutil would break the ABI of the base system. > If you are introducing new interfaces to the other systems, you > can use a library name you find suitable. But for the library > which is linked with significant number of existing binaries, > rename is not an easy option. Can we use libmap.conf to create an alias for the new name on FreeBSD so = that programs that link against libbsdutil, to pick an arbitrary name, = can work and libbsdutil can be packaged for debian? This will allow = things to be portable, while allowing repackaging by Debian. Warner=