From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 4 12:41:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D82CE2F12E9 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 12:41:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x12a.google.com (mail-lf1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49d54d5sXmz4fr8 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 12:41:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id 202so3503897lfe.5 for ; Thu, 04 Jun 2020 05:41:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=cTNPpdymPle2JoXQoo3nRaUwdnvaVr9QCCO8v2bcIYI=; b=Oslp8o7VOI3VhgSdzY4lt0w1z/TvYaDC3R0jhzEEvmYU1gxbWQq40UZP0r5k1sDoCe uar8V+5ZE3nw1rRXWOD9BH5hHLLwrV6VL3RHkTv+o9GIpMAIRZVkkavD2k5g3p+2S6if ksXp26exqgx6I5bUKSGh6ZhhN0FzbfqOvmwpO29NK7rKaJ/MTjNMg9sn/wIEllOR8yn7 u3pw09Qpioe2DGh9w53g5wVzJ4GJyypdrEp3xWLyBoM+pIDxDJJttDiuWqUeSIUgPjqX kS5/UjgTqtOrXBA663yLVQnzPWorHZuMbQ/N4gN4TlNc32qAlPMKXzUyKAE+ELrAI9/S PJiw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=cTNPpdymPle2JoXQoo3nRaUwdnvaVr9QCCO8v2bcIYI=; b=ebE6vnfBtpIrqZNA09ePFpbSqAms+Gv5TCUzxd2ADiRBrATqkVg64CIDz6KuTFMZ9R 7ctR4TkFVXf8QUofQR5VR3WGnMv3/dPE5wNHLhkETAPzxSetqqx6wdIu+gRsD/TWlsSl BtP5U6+lldlfpN/JBqg1vVYWIDgSurcBShxYqRfgh7J17Z5cwuvRoQmy6D4Ri4wPhMKq PG2bQXqjpLkGJbA2UnNTBKQZTbq/ksOdvOb0wwQepUpwfToniINDrGXT35CXaNQNQhSS qR0bwozrgZFTHWeZKYB18wfhdNX9FiJ8ySj6GggUxjxgFwn+f0mY3XenwEYEYwzCbAIX cZxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530uvEGCEPZPsw63vr/bRyiVXP/DIg9zPbz35l7K36+tnC20Oaat xsWyTCt5cJKqN0YrWAIFtCwcp+0qkorpwHlKUqT32r6x X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwz+1SiH3Xbf2ex5q3cWYBhCZY2N1PDCAjMKttUSGYlGT5BjAg08+5EvCX9mGXj8sL27rTT4SuswkNf2AICFJ8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:2023:: with SMTP id s3mr2534062lfs.78.1591274495499; Thu, 04 Jun 2020 05:41:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a05:6504:47:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 05:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: dwilde1@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20200604115632.7a1e6072@archlinux> References: <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604115632.7a1e6072@archlinux> From: Donald Wilde Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 05:41:34 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Minimal skills To: freebsd-questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49d54d5sXmz4fr8 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Oslp8o7V; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dwilde1@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::12a as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dwilde1@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.18 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[dwilde1@gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.52)[-0.517]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.74)[-0.739]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.93)[-0.927]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[gmail.com]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::12a:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 12:41:38 -0000 On 6/4/20, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 07:41:34 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >>If you don't mind, I'd suggest to dedicate a workstation PC >>or a laptop for FreeBSD, while having a second computer (or >>a smartphone) for web access (documtnation, mailing lists, >>or web forums). [snip] I suspect that it may be responding to these lists on your Android phone that may cause the scrambling issues we see, Brandon, or maybe somebody else's MUA (hint?) is not interpreting HTML properly that their MUA defaults to sending. One of the big problems I have in computing in general, and FOSS in particular (I'm looking at YOU, Oracle 'java'!) is that almost any major project depends on skazillions (that's a technical term, Brandon) of layers of software, any one of which may break if some committer somewhere makes a change. or some management wonk decrees that a Major Version Upgrade shall proceed. In just one huge project I was working on, we had a dependency for all system levels of our entire Internet of Things deployment on the JVM ('Java Virtual Machine'). I was prime maintainer of that component, but until Wall Street put pressure on the CEO back in 2016 I had about a dozen people I could talk to who could dive into those layers and find out what broke and assist the layer's maintainers in resolving the problem. When the last of those left or was laid off and a manager told me (re: delays) that THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, I gave my notice. The whole project was cancelled six months later. FreeBSD is much more sane than most projects, IMHO. Almost everything is written in C or C++ or scripts in CSH or SH (hopefully not BASH!). One of the rising issues in computing is the combinatorial explosion in dependencies everywhere. One thing that will help you as a patience-builder is to distinguish between FreeBSD itself and all the myriad ports. As has been said, much of the world expects Windows and most software developers are paid only to ensure that Windows versions of stuff works. What is available for the rest of us is still an overflowing cornucopia and with patience we can all do amazing things! You are on a very good track, Brandon, because the world will need a huge number of additional networking specialists who have paid attention to security. I can tell you that if you stick to this and become really proficient, you'll command salaries in the mid-six-figures (which I have yet to attain, myself, by choice). It's up to you whether you are willing to accept that level of stress in a J O B rather than when creating your own version of Amazing Grace in your own company! :D If I were you, I'd start by studying 'man sh' and 'man tcsh' (the two major shells supplied by default on FBSD). You will note the incredible number of possible options in each, but don't let this dissuade you. Gnu BASH is much, much more complex! When you can comprehend the commands used in the basic scripts and startup dot-files (like .xinitrc and .profile), you can make simple changes and learn to extend things yourself. I personally use UEMACS from the command line as my editor because I came up from a different world (ASM and AI) than those who speak vi from the cradle. One final caution: only choose a port over a pkg when you really want to tweak the configuration or debug it at the source level. You'll have enough to do without adding extra challenges to your task stack! As you can see from some of my posts on -questions and -stable, even an experienced UNIX user and 30-year developer can get in over his head. Patience maintains sanity! :D -- Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * ****************************************************