Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:07:17 -0600 From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> To: Michael Gmelin <freebsd@grem.de> Cc: Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru>, Jeremie Le Hen <jlh@freebsd.org>, Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org>, "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>, Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com>, Joel Dahl <joel@vnode.se> Subject: Re: rtools were deemed almost unused 15 years ago... Message-ID: <CANCZdfqewqvpQb8UE38YJ5vTb6a8HgdmsW801pD%2BHKFzTst%2BRQ@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <E7AC8092-9934-488A-9DFB-B8599138A8D7@grem.de> References: <CAGSa5y3kVajpSSJUT9Vt0-dTwtaXMwNWvv_ELH14z68osM0UYA@mail.gmail.com> <20170620111136.fz5ovfa4imm3p4hj@ivaldir.net> <20170620155954.150dedc5@bsd64.grem.de> <20170620171744.GA72667@ymer.vnode.se> <20170620202217.8ddf0bae0d3dbe7063549006@bidouilliste.com> <20170620201635.GC18123@zxy.spb.ru> <E7AC8092-9934-488A-9DFB-B8599138A8D7@grem.de>
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On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Michael Gmelin <freebsd@grem.de> wrote: > > > > On 20. Jun 2017, at 22:16, Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 08:22:17PM +0200, Emmanuel Vadot wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:17:44 +0200 > >> Joel Dahl <joel@vnode.se> wrote: > >> > >>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 03:59:54PM +0200, Michael Gmelin wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:11:37 +0200 > >>>> Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@FreeBSD.org> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:25:46PM +0200, Jeremie Le Hen wrote: > >>>>>> Hey folks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I remember when I was still barely out of my teenagehood, people > >>>>>> were mostly using ssh/scp while rtools (rsh, rlogin, ... for the > >>>>>> youngsters) were left in place as a courtesy for legacy production > >>>>>> systems still relying it on them. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Fast forward to 2017 (so yes, 15 years later), stack-clash [1] > >>>>>> sorely reminds us that suid binaries are an attack surface. I don't > >>>>>> even need to mention that it's a healthy engineering practice to > >>>>>> remove unused code, both from a maintenance and security > >>>>>> perspective. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Therefore, I hereby propose to remove rtools from the base system. > >>>>>> I acknowledge this will likely cause troubles for a handful of > >>>>>> people who are still relying on it for good or bad reasons. But the > >>>>>> flipside is that the attack surface of millions of FreeBSD > >>>>>> installed out there will be reduced. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The proposed roadmap is: > >>>>>> - disable from the build on head and let it soak for one month > >>>>>> - remove rtools from the base. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What do you guys think? Any preferred color for the bikeshed? :) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> [1] https://www.qualys.com/2017/06/19/stack-clash/stack-clash.txt > >>>>> > >>>>> Yeah! > >>>>> > >>>>> Is telnetd part of your list? > >>>> > >>>> As long as the telnet(1) client stays in I'm all for it. > >>> > >>> +1. Please keep the telnet client. It's something I expect be part of > the base > >>> system utilities. I use it all the time. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Joel > >> > >> Time to learn nc(1), I'm still fighting to use nc(1) insteal of telnet > >> (1) because of musle memory but removing it will help me make the > >> switch. > >> > >> I honestly don't see any valid reason to keep telnet in the tree. > > > > Don't talk what we need to learn, please. > > > > PS: nc don't emulate telnet protocol. > > I use nc every day (more frequently than telnet for sure), but it serves a > different purpose than telnet. I need both. > Same here. I use cat and more every day as well. They both display files, but have different uses... Warner
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