From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 10 13:22:24 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ADB9106568B for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:22:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sonicy@otenet.gr) Received: from kane.otenet.gr (kane.otenet.gr [83.235.67.31]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85B068FC19 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:22:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pulstar.local (athedsl-4468741.home.otenet.gr [94.71.111.245]) by kane.otenet.gr (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id nBADMJqs011957; Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:22:20 +0200 Message-ID: <4B20F60B.7090701@otenet.gr> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:22:19 +0200 From: Manolis Kiagias User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Polytropon References: <20091206102227.7C3BA10656F0@hub.freebsd.org> <20091210185602.T12012@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20091210101812.63806e1c.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20091210101812.63806e1c.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Nicky Chorley , Ian Smith , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 8.0 installation doesn't contain X distributions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:22:24 -0000 Polytropon wrote: > On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:47:08 +1100 (EST), Ian Smith wrote: > >> In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 287, Issue 16, Message: 8 >> On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:39:08 +0200 Manolis Kiagias wrote: >> > Removing X from the distributions is a right step IMO, these are just >> > 3rd party packages and it seems confusing if they get installed along >> > with the base system. >> >> I think this is taking base-system-only installation purity to excess. >> > > Imagine the following situation: A user wants to run Linux > applications on FreeBSD. He selects the Linux ABI service > for startup via sysinstall. The corresponding _enable setting > will be added to rc.conf, and - surprise! - a package will > be installed. > > The same thing happens when a user installs X. Of course, X > is not part of the base system, but in the same way that > sysinstall (down)loads and installs packages when a specific > service is selected, it should act the same way for X. > I know that X has become a problematic and very complex > thing, not just a few packages (as it was in the past > with XFree86). > > X should be installabe in a manner made easy, just like > the Linux ABI. > > > > >> In the case of X, >> you and I, developers and most people here know to hunt for the Xorg >> meta-port. >> > > The average user intending to run a desktop system won't > be happy with compiling stuff... > > Exactly. Most desktop users want a working system in the minimum of time (Can't blame them for that). Even with packages, we cannot beat an image-based distro, esp. since it will also provide all essential default settings. > > >> But the naive or new installer knows of no such thing, and >> could beat around in the huge lists of X software for ages, wondering >> what's required and what's not to get a desktop going. >> > > Therefore, I always liked the choice for X in sysinstall: It > basically installed all the components to get X up and running. > No big trouble getting the correct xorg-driver-* packages, > installing and removing them, the xorg-input-* packages with > the same story... > > > There is an X.org meta-package that installs everything though. It is just a problem with the beginner not knowing what to select. This can be tackled in two ways IMO, first is by creating a "First time FreeBSD desktop installer" type article, second would be adding a menu choice in sysinstall "Install a standard X desktop {GNOME,KDE}". I must admit I much prefer the first solution.