From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 15 19:39:59 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2894816A418 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:39:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from igloo.linux.gr (igloo.linux.gr [62.1.205.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD9913C457 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:39:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from kobe.laptop (dialup200.ach.sch.gr [81.186.70.200]) (authenticated bits=128) by igloo.linux.gr (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-8) with ESMTP id l7FJdX1G024785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:39:47 +0300 Received: from kobe.laptop (kobe.laptop [127.0.0.1]) by kobe.laptop (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l7FJdMnn003424; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:39:25 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by kobe.laptop (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l7FJdIlR003423; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:39:18 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:39:17 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: David Southwell Message-ID: <20070815193917.GB3281@kobe.laptop> References: <46BA9682.7020203@ix.netcom.com> <46BAB22C.1060700@kinetix.gr> <200708150314.09987.david@vizion2000.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200708150314.09987.david@vizion2000.net> X-Hellug-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Hellug-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-3.844, required 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, AWL 0.56, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-Hellug-MailScanner-From: keramida@ceid.upatras.gr X-Spam-Status: No Cc: support@kinetix.gr, Latitude , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Convince me, please! X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:39:59 -0000 One of the best emails I've seen as a reply to a user coming from the Windows world. Many thanks for taking the time to write all this :-) - Giorgos On 2007-08-15 03:14, David Southwell wrote: > I see where both sides in this argument are coming from.. basically a > lack of understanding of the others point of view. As a user of > multiple operating systems..Freebsd, Windows 98, 2000, XP and XP 64, > Linux and apple I thought i might throw in a remark or two which is > intended to help a newcomer to a freebsd world. > > First lets think of the MS windows user. As a newcomer to a unix OS, > such as freebsd, you are faced with two very large sets of challenges > or, as I would like you to think of it, educational opportunities. > > Because the vendor of the operating system is also the vendor of major > applications, including its most commonly used browser, office > applicatiions and compiler systems non-technically minded users do not > easily have a clear grasp of the distinction between the roles of an > OS and the role of applications. To use any Unix system effectively a > clear and reasonably detailed understanding of the way applications > interact with the operating system is essential. > > For its own commercial reasons Microssssoft are keen to blur that > distinction in the minds of its users to maintain a false notion that > only MS windows can fulfill its user's needs. > > Secondly because MS windows operates in a commercial environment it > fosters a dependency culture in which you pay for your OS, you pay for > your applications and in return you EXPECT a level of support and > therefore users are not encouraged to extend their capabilities beyond > understanding the applications they use. > > In the freebsd world most applications and utilities are there for > installing without charge. The users include people who develop and > everyone partakes in a foem of voluntary mutual support. It is a world > in which expectation of support is anathema and in which a combination > of striving for greater personal comeptency and voluntary sharing of > knowledge and responsibility is the dominant ethos. > > So if you plan a move to the unix be ready to learn to build a greater > understanding of how the operating system works, how applications are > installed and maintained and above all to realize your basic needs > will not be fulfilled in the same way as they are fulfilled in MS > windows and that that you will need to put in a lot of effort to > understand how to benefit from the much greater opportunities provided > by OS's such as Freebsd. > > So your first first set of educational opportunities are to learn how > reconstruct your expectations and to construct a set of relationships > that will work for you in a unix world. > > The second set of educational opportunities are to study the > practicalities. You need to decide the basic things you need to get > on board freebsd. You need a browser.. that is no problem there are > many to choose from .. you need office tools well there is a complete > office suite. Whatever you need there will be a tool for you and the > choices are a rich but usually free!!. The draw back is being faced > with the challenge of learning how to choose. > > That is daunting challenge and those of us who are familiar with unix > system, and accustomed to communicating with other freebsd users, are > often guilty of failing to understand that people who come from an MS > Windows find the terse ways in which we tend to communicate to be > abrasive. > > My suggestion to you would be to proceed without risk. Dabble with > freebsd alongside your MSWindows system until you reach the point at > which you are ready or not (as the case may be) to change over > completely. You do not need the latest hardware to get started. > Freebsd is much less bloated and, in that respect, more efficient than > MS windows. Follow the instructions and play with the system and see > where you want to go with it. Like countries all IT systems and > applications have their own language. MS windows has its own language > !! Every territory has a language needed to discuss its inhabitants > understandings. If you use the pejorative term jargon to describe a > language you will need to learn you will never learn to adjust. I > recomend you treat this adjustment process is an educational > opportunity. > > If you are not willing to learn the words that describe how a world > that is new to you functions then, like a immigrant in a foreign land, > you will not feel you understand either the practical systems or the > cultiure of your environment. > > You will not find anyone here wanting to sell you the system!! The > unix world does not work like that. Those of us who have used unix > since before MSDos was developed do not easily realize just how > difficult the adjustment can be for those whose experience is limited > to MS windows. Forgive us if we seem terse or harsh at times. Our > tendency is to indicate resources and trust that others will put in > the effort to use those resources to solve their problems. That is > because we have learned that way ourselves and trust the process. The > adjustment to this way of thinking is not an easy path for newcomers. > > Good luck > David