From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 10 02:04:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA04352 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:04:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA04338 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:04:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk) Received: from brunos-sun.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.185]; by hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5/S-4.0) with SMTP; id KAA05743; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:03:39 GMT Received: locally by brunos-sun (SMI-8.6/QMW-client-3.2b); poster "scott"; id KAA09782; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:02:52 GMT Message-ID: <19981110100251.D11520@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:02:51 +0000 From: Scott Mitchell To: Sue Blake , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Annelise Anderson , Phillip Salzman , Open Systems Networking , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X desktop contest? + Desktop Env References: <7819.910633456@time.cdrom.com> <19981110084727.55542@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981110084727.55542@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Tue, Nov 10, 1998 at 08:47:27AM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Nov 10, 1998 at 08:47:27AM +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > On Mon, Nov 09, 1998 at 09:44:16AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > It is astonishing to me that FreeBSD continues to ship with a two > > > default shells that are not good for interactive use and an out-of-date > > > window manager, and remains relatively difficult to get up and running > > > in critical areas, specifically graphics, printing, sound, and communica- > > > tions. > > > > Not so astonishing - it's quite clear by these results that the number > > of people who actually CARE about this must be very small indeed. > > To be more precise, the number of people who both care and know how > to do something about it must be very small indeed. > > It is equally possible that these groups are both large, but do not > overlap. The results indicate nothing about the total number of people > who care. > > The most helpless users probably care most, and are seen least. > Give them more little ways to contribute without making it their life's > work, then those who can-do will see better reasons for improving on > these feeble attempts. I can't see how it could work any other way and > be sustainable. Absolutely -- the people most in need of an easy-to-drive desktop are probably, in the main, those least able to fix it for themselves. OTOH, *my* desktop suits me just fine, but scares the life out of other (experienced) people if they ever try to use it -- why is why I didn't bother submitting it. Slightly heretical perhaps, but if all we want is something easy-to-use that's installed by default, why not just borrow the stuff from RedHat (replacing all the guy-in-hat icons with daemons, of course). That would at least be a starting point for our own 'look'. The point'n'drool configuration tools are another matter. Scott. -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID |"If I can't have my coffee, I'm just | 0x54B171B9 | like a dried up piece of roast goat" QMW College, London, UK | 0xAA775B8B | -- J. S. Bach. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message