From owner-freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Sat Apr 18 06:59:47 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293052BF169 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 06:59:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from mail.daemonic.se (mail.daemonic.se [IPv6:2607:f740:d:20::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4943js6w10z4dlp; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 06:59:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from cid.daemonic.se (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4943jk2LGBz3mBs; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 06:59:38 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=daemonic.se; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-language:content-type :content-type:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date:date :message-id:from:from:references:subject:subject:received :received; s=20151023; t=1587193039; bh=nlWY02/AdKN+BqH7v1NBQmoa x7r6zlUcqSAseJHoF80=; b=fDr8n41Qb0eB7a1WscCadnky6KQgGJOccbJSDHbh AunDu8eFXhnxOHr04sd1TcZAA2fYZ8Y1KVQC0/TmCTJ4UFErJFAW1xd4HQdzOuha CfZN1hHrhrVUqgrHUnVtcSkqGpV7jUAS7Y+kX4aabPo7VUEWDCXuDwFnl6y1r9RL +ok= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daemonic.se Received: from mail.daemonic.se ([127.0.0.1]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256) by cid.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10587) with ESMTPS id 0XHvuNFEJEaY; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 06:57:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from garnet.daemonic.se (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:201:21b9:f28e:5614:8414]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4943g33YRNz3lbm; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 06:57:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: drm-i915kms + x11-intel eats out all of the ram and swap but not with x11-scfb To: Pete Wright , Alexey Dokuchaev , Jan Beich Cc: Tomasz CEDRO , freebsd-x11@freebsd.org References: <19d0dbdc-f1ac-22f1-6934-076bb5733ab7@daemonic.se> <24c43065-527d-499b-282a-43df2a947a1d@gmail.com> <20200418024954.GB6251@FreeBSD.org> <1ab0b060-ee43-3e0d-4f9c-ebad1e92c57e@nomadlogic.org> From: Niclas Zeising Message-ID: <8bab0627-c7a2-8c8a-41d9-6e099afa1209@daemonic.se> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 08:57:19 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1ab0b060-ee43-3e0d-4f9c-ebad1e92c57e@nomadlogic.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4943js6w10z4dlp X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=daemonic.se header.s=20151023 header.b=fDr8n41Q; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=daemonic.se; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of zeising@daemonic.se designates 2607:f740:d:20::25 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=zeising@daemonic.se X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.67 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[daemonic.se:s=20151023]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-3.67)[ip: (-9.68), ipnet: 2607:f740:d::/48(-4.84), asn: 36236(-3.81), country: US(-0.05)]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[daemonic.se:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[daemonic.se,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:2607:f740:d::/48, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 06:59:47 -0000 On 2020-04-18 05:58, Pete Wright wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 4/17/20 7:49 PM, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: >> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 07:01:49PM +0200, Jan Beich wrote: >>> ... >>> Unlikely. modesetting reached "good enough" level while X11 is >>> deprecated in favor of Wayland. >> X11 is certainly not going anywhere as it mostly works just fine and n= o >> replacement is needed.=C2=A0 You guys can play with Wayland or whateve= r the >> next cool kid on the block is called as long as you wish but please le= t >> it be your pain, not ours. >> >> Deprecating X11, huh.=C2=A0 That's preposterous! > You should let the Xorg development team know your opinions on this=20 > topic.=C2=A0 the freebsd graphics team is trying to make sure that when= =20 > upstream does make the cut over to wayland we are not left totally out. >=20 > i would also say that *now* (well probably several years ago) is the=20 > time for us as a community to get engaged with wayland development.=20 > there are already lots of linux and systemd assumptions being made by=20 > their development efforts, so this is our opportunity to make sure our=20 > voices are heard before it's too late. The Freedesktop.org upstream (the ones responsible for xorg and wayland)=20 are aware of us, and quite helpful in getting FreeBSD specific code in,=20 so I'm not too worried there (as long as we bring the code, at least).=20 I'm more worried about the people making various wayland compositors and=20 wayland desktop environments though. >=20 > personally my biggest worry is that wayland going to end up being even=20 > more tightly coupled with logind/systemd and we'll be left with the=20 > choice of no modern graphics stack or having to adopt systemd in some=20 > way.=C2=A0 i'd hazard a guess that this is a situation that none of us = would=20 > be too happy with. >=20 With regards to logind/systemd, what we need to provide is most likely a=20 session manager of some sort, or at least an interface to FreeBSD=20 session handling, where it is possible to plug in such a thing. Regards --=20 Niclas