From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 7 20:28:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5684E1065675; Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:28:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BBE8FC21; Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:28:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from 4.151.178.10.in-addr.arpa (m420e36d0.tmodns.net [208.54.14.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m57KSRds060799; Sat, 7 Jun 2008 13:28:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.029 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.029 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.148, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.617] Message-Id: <5CCF0D6E-56C1-4EBD-B8A6-955311F7851E@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Kris Kennaway In-Reply-To: <484808B8.8070506@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v924) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 13:28:21 -0700 References: <9B7FE91B-9C2E-4732-866C-930AC6022A40@netconsonance.com> <4846D849.2090005@FreeBSD.org> <4846E14C.709@FreeBSD.org> <48472CCF.8080101@FreeBSD.org> <4847EF62.1070709@rxsec.com> <4847F814.10409@FreeBSD.org> <4847FB1D.1050400@rxsec.com> <4847FFDE.8000209@FreeBSD.org> <48480473.3010009@rxsec.com> <484808B8.8070506@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.924) Cc: Doug Barton , FreeBSD Stable , Chris Marlatt Subject: Re: challenge: end of life for 6.2 is premature with buggy 6.3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:28:38 -0000 On Jun 5, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Kris Kennaway wrote: > There has been nothing of value offered in this thread, and it's > only served to piss off a number of developers who already put huge > amounts of volunteer time into supporting FreeBSD, and who take > pride in the quality of their work. I'm honestly sorry to hear that. I tried very hard with the very limited time I had available to me to phrase it clearly as a policy/ support issue and not to put the blame on any developer. There are number of issues in projects I support that are waiting on time from me too, so I can hardly point any fingers in that direction. We *all* have less time to work on this stuff than we might want. > Asking the volunteers to > a) fix unspecified problems that the submitter will not name in > detail but which are OMG SHOWSTOPPER YOU MUST FIX In rereading my quotes I may have not been clear on something. The vast majority of these bugs have already been fixed. ("not in a state that needs help identifying" was what I said trying to cover both that and known bugs without a fix yet) However, the fixes are not available in a -RELEASE version of the operating system. This is why EoLing 6.2 and forcing people to upgrade to a release with lots of known issues is a problem. Obviously you have to choose between developer time/effort to create a release candidate and the effort required to backdate security patches to 6.2. I don't know the reasons (which is why I created this thread) but my guess was the latter was easier than the former... > b) donate even more unpaid time to supporting branches because it > seems like a good "compromise" (!) > shows a complete failure of understanding and frankly beggars belief. Although the insults aren't helpful, I agree with you. I created this thread because I have a "failure of understanding". I'd appreciate some enlightenment of the real costs involved (and how we could help if possible). That's why I created this thread. > Such people are not acting as supporters of the project, however > well-intentioned they may believe themselves to be. You seem quite willing to make enemies. I'm not your enemy, and we'd both probably get a lot more work done if you stopped treating me like one. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness