From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 25 09:50:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93772106566C; Sat, 25 Aug 2012 09:50:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jlaffaye.freebsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 590318FC08; Sat, 25 Aug 2012 09:49:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke52 with SMTP id e52so1031482eek.13 for ; Sat, 25 Aug 2012 02:49:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=898r7Iwki7HA81JNG8SHP8M+Bm2g4Fe0sBNC672Fx8Q=; b=pPZBhWDX3dY1gXE4cC0mYhIX0gwJHD1xZovX6lxzx6hRxxOTLtCQyy61sBtwOImyBZ e4ejKDsogySxpCpVxvpVJUfb56DvJwA5VaJ2A0058T8moIfpVgsEiYwsNnpIY2gsoKxV hid70wnXZ6A4u7EOvfFCfKQ2eP0ggN3/rdsMhRTCQF7sRZNzgq0c7aydXMZ2vcHget5f o2igfCRuNY71pKRuqWk9JfYggHHS0wGhQRtkLUzyL3jeQ6gvUl3urMEW0nI9avCZPN2O XfpPemKIMT9Zv/pK0jwT3NA/ApVmuUpNtFpf+WBK/v8fDt6DtvZU6FGt5vbNiom8XaaO xi+A== Received: by 10.14.198.129 with SMTP id v1mr10190968een.42.1345888192839; Sat, 25 Aug 2012 02:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.67] (lantea.jlaffaye.net. [109.190.125.169]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h42sm36251755eem.5.2012.08.25.02.49.50 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 25 Aug 2012 02:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Julien Laffaye Message-ID: <50389FC0.50102@freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 11:49:52 +0200 From: Julien Laffaye User-Agent: Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton References: <97612B57-1255-4BB3-A6D3-FC74324C6D67@FreeBSD.org> <785B5BAD-E015-4624-B3A1-D05E1BD97E51@freebsd.org> <5AC662AA-4874-4BC2-9862-65518B79B840@freebsd.org> <5036EE2E.4040606@FreeBSD.org> <5037F8BB.9020501@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <5037F8BB.9020501@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ports@freebsd.org, Eitan Adler , Baptiste Daroussin , current@freebsd.org, Steve Wills Subject: Re: pkgng suggestion: renaming /usr/sbin/pkg to /usr/sbin/pkg-bootstrap X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 09:50:01 -0000 On 8/24/2012 11:57 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > On 8/23/2012 8:03 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: >> On 23 August 2012 22:59, Doug Barton wrote: >>> I tend to agree with Steve here ... we can't be responsible for other >>> people's poorly written docs. >> This isn't about poorly written docs. This is the user expecting a >> tool to exist, which doesn't. Take another example of a sysadmin which >> rarely installs new systems, installs FreeBSD for the third time, and >> then gets confused when "pkg install vim" fails. > Aren't we going to install the pkg package on new systems when they are > installed? Isn't that (shouldn't that be?) part of the project plan? It > would be insane for us not to do that, at least for the releases where > pkg is the default. True. But when you create jails without the installer, you have to install pkgng by hand. Hence the /usr/sbin/pkg bootstrap. > >>> You bring up a valid point that we should >>> keep in mind for our own however. The bootstrapping issue will be the >>> smallest possible annoyance on a long road of the migration process. >> The bootstrapping issue is a factor even after the migration :) > I think that the point I'm trying to make is that it shouldn't be. > >> note that I'm not talking about the mechanism here, I'm trying to >> avoid "pkg doesn't seem to be installed on my fresh system" becoming a >> FAQ. > The way that we avoid that problem is not to create it for ourselves in > the first place. :) > > The role of pkg-bootstrap is for those users who have already-installed > systems that need to do the conversion, or if somehow pkg becomes > corrupted on the user's system and needs to be reinstalled. That's it. > > I like that you're thinking through the related issues, but in this > particular case I think you're overthinking it. > > Doug >