From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 25 23:51:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA19386 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:51:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA19370 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA27182 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:51:53 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA03525; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:30:51 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970826083051.FR52594@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:30:51 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ATT Unix for Windows ! References: <199708251245.WAA23142@oznet11.ozemail.com.au> <19970825204932.12036@grendel.IAEhv.nl> <34020362.7DB1@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> <19970825224258.55928@grendel.IAEhv.nl> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <19970825224258.55928@grendel.IAEhv.nl>; from Peter Korsten on Aug 25, 1997 22:42:58 +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Peter Korsten wrote: > Well, at least they have something visual. Do you know of any handy > tool to patch a program together that happens to run with FreeBSD? > That runs with X too? For the same price as VC++? > > If you write simple stdin/stdout programs (a so called Console > Application in Visual C++), it's far easier to use. A really good > editor, a really good debugger, and all of it integrated. Not to > mention the difference between a makefile with tons of '-switches', > compared to a project workspace. Well, i once was fond of Borland's IDE as well, back in 1990. Later on, when i've already been programming for Unix for a couple of years, xwpe was released, and it promised to feature the Borland environment in an X11 application. I tried it. I've been shocked. I couldn't use this kind of boring IDE anymore. People mentioned Emacs, and that's also mostly my ``IDE''. xf does it for Tk (although is has its flaws, so i'm coupling it with Emacs frequently). I wish there were something freely available for Xaw. As for Makefiles: i even use them for text processing, to formulate dependencies for picture inclusion, image conversion, etc. So they are a comfort to me. :) The non-existance of Makefiles would be one of the first reasons for me to *not* use something like a Borland IDE, or M$ `Visual' stuff anymore. Once you've learned to value the flexibility of make(1), you can hardly give it up again. Even my attempt to use Applixware for text processing (since the output was required to be Win-compatible) ended up in me writing an applix-mode.el instead. :-) (Note that i had to learn Elisp for this step, something i didn't know much of before.) This way, i could type the ApplixWord document in Emacs, which was more convenient to me. No WYSIWING flickering, no terribly small letters (or zooming to a degree where you have to pan all the time), comfortable search&replace, unlimited `undo', the fingers could remain on the keyboard and didn't need to get off for a mouse e.g. in order to insert the next paragraph's headline. Of course, this is all my very personal opinion, but i'm sure quite a number of people feel the same. This might explain to the VC++ etc. users why there is so little `resonance' to IDE projects in a Unix world. Once you got used to the Unix way, you don't miss the Visual stuff. (Once you would be forced to return to that Visual stuff, after you've been used to the Unix way, i'm sure i would *hate* it.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)