From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Apr 10 00:41:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79F492AC15B for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:41:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-f43.google.com (mail-io1-f43.google.com [209.85.166.43]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48yzhv0Gdxz4WwW; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:41:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-f43.google.com with SMTP id y17so279980iow.9; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 17:41:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Nk+tzs2fI/ZrYg8J9IBQvHsBoXNIlcIf1EYgdnkfOig=; b=ExYlnVuvgUDptrLozk5JKfkagWrNeYUR/2Ch3z4qrNRcTmjvXftRdfRyFVA/dIlPxo KrMfxF5dhMiubJRVr6aGu+GkXbY21EMv/9c0b2BmQ+3zqMAUpL0B1iO6YW1VJSbcb4y8 FXajNheo0QlN4k/oDHGJpV9PuX5Ryfd97Au+oj+9+UUZpVvReuOIFPoez3A9HknfDYra Io+tx4Zm7MsxVbOZxufrd1ZzWwhHVPhN/H9W4Y7lyxCgwF1Iu5oBl2IFLI76oWDcVu9L QUozSDup7bVOEoz9z79Iru2WiSaY5QvM92cto95q3eT1T52vpgf5DG5qtkGd0OnzYYvI pK5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pub/qLaEkv7INFPd90GaoQzb12JIfB+agGaCl2VzBLPIsRPQU3p7 m++7y3LhRSRYajTSwAoITIAD3xjtkBGczvsFQSsCrw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIHwCcg8hJ8hVZ4BqQZl3kSJPTVk0sXPQQvB6lj5Wojta2LnWwzWzTSjtoTAvCRp1GeN+MSAID5ZGdU88ty6nI= X-Received: by 2002:a02:93cf:: with SMTP id z73mr2309102jah.136.1586479275116; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 17:41:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8a9e684c-4b6d-884d-4db6-fc7b436117e0@daemonic.se> In-Reply-To: <8a9e684c-4b6d-884d-4db6-fc7b436117e0@daemonic.se> From: Ed Maste Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 20:41:02 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience To: Niclas Zeising Cc: Kyle Evans , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48yzhv0Gdxz4WwW X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of carpeddiem@gmail.com designates 209.85.166.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=carpeddiem@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.82 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[43.166.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-0.82)[ip: (-3.24), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-0.40), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[43.166.85.209.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:41:21 -0000 On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 at 17:40, Niclas Zeising wrote: > > To be honest, what's the difference from how yum or apt does it? > At least yum search returns everything that matches, including matches > in package descriptions and so on. I haven't used apt systems in a > while, but I recall they being similar. The difference is just that a yum or apt user is probably encountering the equivalent of `pkg search xorg` for the first time in an xterm with familiar scrolling behaviour, not an 80x25 console where they might not be able to find out how to find output that has scrolled off the screen. This isn't a problem with pkg, it's a problem with the experience we present to a new user.