From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 27 23:05:31 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 642A87F7 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:05:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.stack.nl (relay04.stack.nl [IPv6:2001:610:1108:5010::107]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 257A7113A for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:05:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from snail.stack.nl (snail.stack.nl [IPv6:2001:610:1108:5010::131]) by mx1.stack.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D03A3B808F; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:05:28 +0100 (CET) Received: by snail.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 1677) id B6C6228497; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:05:28 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:05:28 +0100 From: Jilles Tjoelker To: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: terminfo Message-ID: <20140227230528.GB8295@stack.nl> References: <5304A0CC.5000505@FreeBSD.org> <20140223115939.GB4084@aerie.jexium-island.net> <20140226085939.GC2705@server.rulingia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20140226085939.GC2705@server.rulingia.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Ed Schouten , arch@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:05:31 -0000 On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 07:59:39PM +1100, Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2014-Feb-23 14:49:25 +0100, Ed Schouten wrote: > >- Who cares about double-width characters? I don't know a single > >program that uses this. In the worst case, you can just use fullwidth > >CJK for certain characters. > I wrote an app at $previous-job that used double-height/double-width > characters in xterm. I might have been able to use unicode but then > everyone who wanted to use in would need to have configured their xterm > for UTF-8 - and I don't believe had done that. > >- Who cares about 88 colour support? Just use 256 colours. > Assuming your app supports that. > >- Who cares about ACS? Unicode already has those characters. > Again, that assumes your app supports unicode. > >People are nowadays only interested in having a 16 or 256 colour, > >UTF-8 enabled terminal. > And running legacy apps that predate unicode. The proposal here is not to change terminal emulators to remove all legacy features. Rather, it is proposed to create one termcap or terminfo entry that will work with all modern terminal emulators. Applications using termcap or terminfo (either directly or indirectly through ncurses) will then stop using various legacy features. In the case of features like legacy ACS and 88-colour, the application does not lose any user-visible functionality. In the long run, support for the legacy features will probably deteriorate, especially in terminal emulators with maintainers less passionate about the details of terminal emulation than xterm's maintainer. I think it is worth it to simplify terminals. Instead of having people choose how they want their terminal to work improperly, provide one way and concentrate on making that work as well as possible (no visual artifacts, 256 colours, Unicode, key combinations like Ctrl+Home, etc.) I also like the idea of some applications sending control sequences directly, without using curses or even termcap/terminfo. -- Jilles Tjoelker