From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 7 16:07:59 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6045516A4CE for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:07:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp11.wanadoo.fr (smtp11.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F4843D1F for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:07:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from atkielski.anthony@wanadoo.fr) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1108.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id F2B861C00045 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:07:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from pix.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-111-2-1-3.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.50.80.3]) by mwinf1108.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id BA9981C00049 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:07:57 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20050207160757764.BA9981C00049@mwinf1108.wanadoo.fr Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:07:57 +0100 From: Anthony Atkielski X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <849739867.20050207170757@wanadoo.fr> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <200502061420.24415.krinklyfig@spymac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: favor X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:07:59 -0000 Ted Mittelstaedt writes: TM> Clearly I think Anthony is saying in his posts to me that the TM> list managers should e-mail legal boilerplate to every subscriber TM> that they would then agree to, which would basically state that TM> the poster waives their copyrights if they post. Approximately, yes. A better agreement would be one that requires that the subscriber license his posts for archiving and public access and agree that he will not consider this an invasion of privacy. Relinquishing copyright is a huge step and it's pretty rare to ask anyone to do it. An alternative is to make the archive accessible only to current members, and to purge posts from any member who leaves the list. There's still a bit of risk in that but it eliminates most potential objections. TM> The problem I see is that doing this creates a TM> contract, which is one of the issues we are disagreeing on. A contract exists already. This just formalizes the terms. TM> It also changes the signups on the list to that of an TM> access-controlled forum which means that the owners of the forum are TM> exercising editorial control, meaning they are republishing posts to TM> the list, which means they have to obtain rights to do this from TM> each poster when that poster posts. Requiring that a person subscribe to receive messages is already access control. If you don't want any access control, you must go to an open forum format and eliminate the mailing list. Then anyone can read and anyone can post ... like USENET. TM> He is saying that since the act of signing up for the list creates a TM> contract between the list owners and the poster, the list owner TM> should issue a contract to the signupee that outlines their (lack TM> of) rights if they post. The act of doing just about anything with another person or organization often creates a contract of some kind. Making it explicit only helps to protect both parties from misunderstandings and litigation. TM> I disagree that the act of signing up for the list creates a TM> contract, since the list is publically available without signup, TM> and espically since the list can be posted to by the general TM> public without signup. It's impossible to receive the list by e-mail without signing up. A person who signs up has every reason to believe that only other people who have also signed up will receive his posts, since that's how mailing lists normally work. He also has every reason to believe that his posts will be ephemeral, existing only as e-mail messages, since again that is how mailing lists work. Archiving messages without telling subscribers about it and requiring them to agree with it only invites trouble. It should be kept in mind that when geeks meet lawyers, the geeks always lose. -- Anthony