From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 26 18:18:49 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97EB3EA9 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:18:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B4A1E12 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:18:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Alfreds-MacBook-Pro-9.local (c-76-21-10-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.21.10.192]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 769C81A3C1C; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 10:18:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52E55186.7020009@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 10:18:46 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Big Lebowski , Jim Ohlstein Subject: Re: What is the problem with ports PR reaction delays? References: <52E43A80.4030501@rawbw.com> <52E44BC1.7040404@rawbw.com> <52E46D44.6050403@freebsd.org> <52E47EF7.7040402@ohlste.in> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.17 Cc: Aryeh Friedman , freebsd-ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:18:49 -0000 On 1/26/14 5:25 AM, Big Lebowski wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 4:20 AM, Jim Ohlstein > wrote: > > Hello, > > > On 1/25/14, 9:04 PM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > On 1/25/14 3:48 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Yuri > wrote: > > On 01/25/2014 14:44, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > The key seems to be that no one has time to do the > stuff they really > want > to do (get new ports into the system)... to that > end automating > everything > that can be automated is sure help free up > comitter time so they can > look > at what is interesting > > Yes. I just can't imagine any generic port tests that > can't be automated > and coded into the script once and for good. > Ideal system should be like github with the added > automated testing > between pull request submission and merge. It should > either fail and > notify > the submitter, or succeed and notify the committers. > > Git hup (or *ANY* remote service for that matter) is a no > go IMO > > > You just don't get it. > > Again, you just really, really, don't get it. > > You WANT a gateway to a remote service that the project does > not have to > handle. > > Why? Because then we offload the problem to another org. > > The FreeBSD project should be about innovation in OS design, > platform > and software. Ops work is bunk and just slows us down. > > The more we can outsource the better we'll be. (and what if that > service blows up? well we move on! it's simple!) > > Continuing to insist that we run the services ourselves it > just wasting > our limited resources. Not only that but we get emotionally > attached to > technologies that are old, dying and dead when off the shelf > stuff works > just fine. > > > I've read all 60 or so messages in this thread and there really > are two related but distinct issues here. > > The thread title is "What is the problem with ports PR reaction > delays?". This has meandered into a philosophical debate about who > knows what and who knows squat about version control systems, > whether we need to maintain certain requirements, testing ports, etc. > > I like the KISS approach myself. This can be boiled down to those > two issues, one of which is a symptom of the other. Arguing and > debating over a long term solution to the OP's question does > nothing to solve the problem in the short to intermediate term. > There are 1680 current ports related PR's at this moment. > > As we all know, the committers are volunteers, mostly with real > jobs and real lives and they obviously cannot keep up with the > current load. The short to medium term solution for that is more > committers. I'll add my name to the list of those who are willing > to step in and help to clean up the mess. I'm certain that if a > request went out, there would be many who are more qualified than I. > > At the same time, a group of interested individuals should offer > input to the folks who already are looking at changing the bug > reporting system away from gnats - > https://wiki.freebsd.org/Bugtracking/BugRelocationPlan. Doing it > in one fell swoop might make sense. It's "ripping off the bandaid" > but I'd rather do it only once myself. > > What does *not* make sense is a new port for what might be a very > useful tool waiting since September for someone to look at it. > Arguing over git and subversion et alia does nothing to fix that. > As they say on the ESPN NFL pregame show, "C'mon man!". > > > I can't agree more. I can see, understand and accept reasons why we > cant move from SVN to GitHub/Git and I certainly dont think that it > would be solution to current problems. It seems like this is not > neccessary, it wont happen, so I think we can end that discussion > here. However, we do have all the tools to automate this process, so I > really dont understand why not to do this, especially it is perfectly > doable with SVN, Redports are already doing so, and there are people > willing to work on it. > Thanks Big Lebowski ! I'm not sure if taking your word for it will be the be all and end all of progress on this issue. I do have hope, after all as Max Plancksaid: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." I just have my fingers cross that we are not so insular, so heels dug deep in the dirt, and so curmudgeonly that we drive away anyone interested in new technology. I mean, if we're all so firm in our beliefs there are dozens of other open source projects that encourage new things that people will flock to. -Alfred