From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Feb 21 14:56:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6271238206 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 14:56:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48PF0W3GZQz3Pgc for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 14:56:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.117.217]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N2m3G-1jS0600C7A-0138MS; Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:56:40 +0100 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:56:38 +0100 From: Polytropon To: David Demelier Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life Message-Id: <20200221155638.5ac76845.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20200217231452.717FA1E820@freefall.freebsd.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:eJsC3cSYVHHjS7YfpG+qkr7UEu0mBiVuWve9GeGFxJhRSRAUVUS 7XMamVpLj7CsXvPv++6joxnQcczmPfSynBG1mXjiOVsKZiT+8IJKVv8sSF/mmNbrt9ZCR4j y7rdpOUdVWQlUGXXRAlYXbgME8clTqr0t5q8ZK+eIstZv/lK/OOE/pEkelT/kaSmfUKw1Qg 0uJh9bdCWIasTCZLXYoEw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:ekKrfl+L7JU=:yVE/Quu3JIeTwUxFBwQzvt I7q46uFT+rQ+Z3jDcZLI3Z5/Q9A06F5hMcUhofqU47oOAqHmJkEs6Sles8InohE+pGSOXwI0a M6+bHwYpAV37pFFif0N76FssoA2tEC3/eJFy1t4ByRHZgElvRpGniBpt3iczN4+cEm9E0ggBA fHB50q3Wpuo2ud6ar17L4R4gu0DnkZRsX2rmAI6y6PejufmQHwzEVVSFd1knnoYaclKYYPBnZ m2bfJTGoY7zH/hZyjTc74YUUuoKgH+zz/M76mjW/mYerKBfvihgHZI14YfrXdX+OCxxKrl5rw gO3COHzl3Sto77p3SgFUkdQWkC98zIvH8XQZW0T2pzXrkAvYbTI7zY0UbXTG4TnD+maSiF2/0 qeBFy2fEicpoOYH2jG49m2bllGGxwnk3mK+KtiWzCFo+KqOb0HRQVX4UNK1UuNh1+onTSusjB XStjJF1ERbeJ6MCzmRDavFJvVFFwfQuky6DjdXOWCBMam3N3TlAny6QbJC/r2bRCVTzpnmAuR p1pGmi4JiF1vTsmtjaB7UJFmiWPwkQBpUPqZfEyR2NOJultm0j9u+MsCuZ2FWyL+dLoGS+49+ CCzQIIqmFlyfbNgHAbSlkx3aYcZKPJi2NunqvHfdRLE913SUfwepcOgEqbfmuw23StxBmhTRA w2kzVP175U84j5cBYpdNVywlr5D2CNqJ8rllVQ6zNmJdsS3TzlLIKtCD6MJsK0vawe30if6Fn 7ShBDTdIAq65OuFunBhZLNl2CxX1EQWmcyulrLZyeR+OFQJeWJFz5WhHq6kb/F3tcHnyYsoHg 4O39HxdJFv7atzoGhSD1+BjVI7TuQGAq2jSH4qjfJIhgsfQnwD3qSnspMKDXslImEd0YaTu X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48PF0W3GZQz3Pgc X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.17.10) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.35 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[217.117.12.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.96)[0.958,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.90)[0.899,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[10.17.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[10.17.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.09)[ip: (-0.61), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.12), asn: 8560(2.19), country: DE(-0.02)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 14:56:44 -0000 On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 13:17:01 +0100, David Demelier wrote: > FreeBSD for desktop is still not a thing. So I'm obviously doing something wrong. :-) FreeBSD is my _primary_ desktop since version 4.0. This desktop achieves the following abilities for decades now: 1. I can do what the "cool kids" can do before they can do it. 2. I can do it better / faster / more reliable / ... 3. I can keep doing it when the "cool kids" have become unable to do it. This is of course specific to _my_ needs, which may be totally different from what everyone else does with a desktop. In my case, I use it for web browsing, multimedia, and gaming, as well as for programming and what they call "web development" today. :-) > It won't change anytime soon > because lacks of manpower and less interest into porting things to > FreeBSD. While I disagree with your first statement, I fully agree with this one. But you need to acknowledge that most desktop software is not directly written for FreeBSD ("native solution"), but instead ported over from Linux. Linux, as a "moving target" kind of platform, makes it hard to follow and port. We are still stuck with stuff like HAL and DBus, things already abandoned in Linux and replaced with functionally equivalent solutions in the lower levels of the OS (system libraries and kernel), which are _not_ compatible to FreeBSD, so workarounds need to be created, or those things need to be implemented from scratch. And that of course is not a trivial task. > That's why DRM, bluetooth, wireless, ACPI and wayland terribly > lag behind Linux. As far as I know, Wayland is a Linux-only thing. ACPI - look at the implementations, not at the standards. In many cases, you can blame the manufacturers deviating from the standard, doing their own strange thing, and supplying a "Windows" driver to compensate what they did wrong. Wireless - yes, fully agree. While it is not a problem with older chipsets, it sometimes is with newer ones. Bluetooth - no idea, I'm not using that. And DRM (digital restriction management) - if you want that, just go to jail. ;-) > To me FreeBSD stays a server OS (even though rolling-releases ports are > not appropriate). FreeBSD's big advantage, as I already wrote, is its ability to be _one_ OS for many things: for servers, for desktops, for appliances, and for "mixed forms" (which you cannot easily put in one of the three big groups, i. e., a desktop workstation offering local server functionality). Everything comes from the same codebase, and has, with a few limitations, the same pool to source 3rd party applications from (the Ports colleciton). In my opinion, this makes FreeBSD much more than "just" a server OS. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...