From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 29 04:28:34 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C334106566C for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 04:28:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A0818FC18 for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 04:28:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from TEDSDSK (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id m4T4SVer039824; Wed, 28 May 2008 21:28:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Jon Radel" , Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 21:29:33 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 In-Reply-To: <483DF79B.1010704@radel.com> Importance: Normal X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]); Wed, 28 May 2008 21:28:32 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Subject: RE: FreeBSD based router ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 04:28:34 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Jon Radel > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:24 PM > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: FreeBSD based router ... > > > Tom Van Looy wrote: > > > > Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >>> been happy with using soekris net48XX boxes using m0n0wall > >> small but expensive. used 486-pentium hardware is for free. > > > > No it's not, they consume electricity. Soekris boxes are designed for > > low-power. I had a 4501 and now have a 5501. > > And, other than in hobbyist's private networks and things built with > volunteer labor, there are generally labor costs. Rummaging in the junk > pile can get pretty expensive if you have to pay somebody to do it.... > That really depends on both the organization and the worker and what their job is and a lot of other things. For example, I manage people at an ISP. Their jobs are to run the network and answer customer support calls. If they are doing their jobs then the ISP runs well and we don't get many support calls. Thus some of their time they will be sitting idle. I don't adjust their job descriptions to permanently increase the amount of work they do because I don't want them tied up doing more work when a customer does call for support, and also because it is punishing them for doing a good job in the first place. Yet I don't want them sitting around playing computer games while they are waiting for a support call, either. In this case, if they are working on building some junk computer into a router then it is not critical work that they cannot set down immediately at any time if a customer calls. Yet it also keeps them busy and out of trouble, and contributes something to the business. And it teaches them something so their brains don't rot. My labor costs are going to be the same whether they are resurrecting some old PC or whether they are sitting twiddling their thumbs, so now please explain to me how it is that I am incurring expense paying someone to rummage in a junk pile? And there are also the cases of the government organizations who have money budgeted to upgrades but not capital expenses, and every expense over $500 must be justified to the nth degree. In those organizations you can spend $2K USD without seeking second level approval if you write a series of PO's for under $500 each, getting a hard disk on one, a power supply on another, a motherboard on a third, etc. But if you try to simply buy a PC all put together for less money you will get it slapped down. Dilbert even had a series of cartoons about this, one of the few series I've read that I didn't think was funny, as it simply described reality for a lot of people. So, yeah, there are a lot of organizations that do not function nice and neat like it says they should in the MBA courses. Ted