Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:44:13 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" <gibbs@plutotech.com> To: Karl Denninger <karl@Denninger.Net> Cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" <gibbs@plutotech.com>, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Long IDE probes? Message-ID: <199809301850.MAA16318@pluto.plutotech.com> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:29:33 CDT." <19980930132933.B4481@Denninger.Net>
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>> Not everyone who uses FreeBSD has "modern devices". Not everyone >> who uses FreeBSD knows that their devices will only work with a longish >> delay. Are you saying that we should lose the ability to install on >> these machines simply because you, a user that knows how to modify this >> behavior, finds the default behavior annoying? >> >> -- >> Justin > >Justin, quit being a pompous ass and lose the attitude. Its uncalled for. Ahemmm. >You and I both know damn well that to install you need ONLY, WORST CASE: > 1. A floppy that works (to boot from) > 2. A CDROM > 3. A disk You can also install off of tape, a CD-R that can look like a CDROM, an Optical disk, etc. etc. Sysinstal has allowed for this for some time. >Kvetching about how someone's 1980's scanner or ancient tape drive won't >come up under GENERIC on initial boot is both pointless and inappropriate, >given that you *know* these facts to be true I'm talking about old CDROM drives, CD-Rs and OD disks as well as tapes. Not everyone performs CDROM or network installs. Documentation exists for tape installs and for people that have unconnected machines at home, it should remain an option. >, and that for every one of >those people there are a dozen others who can't boot without manual >override of GENERIC's defaults due to ISA bus conflicts. When did this become the topic of our discussion? I would also clasify this as buggy behavior since many of these devices can be probed safely without user intervention. I would also argue that this kind of failure is both better documented in the install notes and more likely to be expected by the user than a failure caused by the SCSI or IDE settle delay. >They don't RIGHT NOW and FreeBSD has NEVER had that as a criteria for >driver probe behavior. Does this mean that we shouldn't have that criteria? This is the criteria I used for all of the ISA probes for the new CAM drivers. >If you want to make a point about ancient hardware, then explain why in the >heck was CAM integrated without ALL the legacy SCSI devices being supported? But all legacy SCSI devices are being supported by CAM (at least that is the intention barring bugs). We don't support legacy SCSI controllers due to lack of time and documentation. In other words, the 3.0R documentation will clearly state that we only support cards X, Y, and Z. It will also say that disks, cdroms, scanners, tapes, and worm devices are supported. The user will understand if their wd7000 controller isn't found during install because the documentation does say that it is supported, but they will be perplexed if their CDROM drive is not found when attached to a supported controller. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message
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