From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 17 20:52:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351D21065670 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 20:52:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF2E514F9D6; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 20:52:40 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <50578D98.7080902@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:52:40 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:15.0) Gecko/20120911 Thunderbird/15.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh References: <20120916053523.GJ37286@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <51B48339-D1FA-49CD-B582-1C58855B024E@bsdimp.com> <50563EA6.1050908@FreeBSD.org> <99E30CDE-AC9D-4615-8830-5EC511EE1BBB@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <99E30CDE-AC9D-4615-8830-5EC511EE1BBB@bsdimp.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.4 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Konstantin Belousov , Eitan Adler , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fallout from the CVS discussion X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 20:52:41 -0000 On 09/16/2012 14:45, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > >> On 09/16/2012 09:03, Warner Losh wrote: >>> One of the things we are trying to move towards is that current can be cut into a release branch on short notice. We need to keep it as close to production ready as possible. People >> >> I find your response here interesting Warner, given that when I have >> opposed what I felt were too-drastic changes in HEAD (such as removing >> sysinstall before a post-install configuration solution was ready) your >> response has been, "It's HEAD, we can break things ... let's see what >> happens!" > > sysinstall replacement was a different discussion, with differing technical criteria. Right... in the sysinstall case we had a mainline system tool that was actively being used, with no replacement in sight. It should not have been removed until we had a viable replacement in the base. In the CVS case we have something that was _formerly_ in a similar category, but is not any longer. > Also, using it against me now for consistency likely isn't so good. I think we moved too quickly, in retrospect, on that. That experience suggests we be more cautious in the future, including for things like this. Careful! You're coming dangerously close to saying I was right about something. :) >> Now that you are the one opposed to the change, we need to >> keep HEAD "close to production ready." > > Look at bz's push in this area. Yes, I think it's awesome that someone else has finally taken up the "plz 2 stop brking teh head, kplztks" banner. Too bad it's still being ignored. > Also, I'm not opposed to this change, just opposed to this change today, as explained elsewhere. Doing it now has a lot of benefits, but ... >> There is a compromise solution here that I have been hesitant to offer >> because I was really hoping that sanity would prevail. But why not >> switch the default MK_CVS knob over to "no" now? That will give us an >> opportunity to see if there really will be any fallout, and easily fix >> it if there is. > > I believe that's already been done. It isn't now, but it sounds to me like you're saying that you're not opposed to doing so? Eitan, if you're listening, I'd strike while the iron is hot. :) Doug -- I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do. -- Edward Everett Hale, (1822 - 1909)