From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 19 15:55:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C346459C for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:55:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@h2.funkthat.com) Received: from h2.funkthat.com (gate2.funkthat.com [208.87.223.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BDE58FC12 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:55:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from h2.funkthat.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by h2.funkthat.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q9JFtgwT054351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2012 08:55:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@h2.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by h2.funkthat.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id q9JFtgMF054350 for current@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2012 08:55:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 08:55:42 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: removal of share/doc/{papers,psd,smm,usd} in 2 months Message-ID: <20121019155542.GQ1967@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: current@FreeBSD.org References: <20121019143617.GF69724@acme.spoerlein.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20121019143617.GF69724@acme.spoerlein.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.2-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 54BA 873B 6515 3F10 9E88 9322 9CB1 8F74 6D3F A396 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html X-to-the-FBI-CIA-and-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? can i haz chizburger? X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (h2.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 19 Oct 2012 08:55:42 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:55:44 -0000 Ulrich Sprlein wrote this message on Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 16:36 +0200: > those roff sources have been very naughty and will be removed from the > tree by the end of the year. Most of those papers are severely out of > date and provide no more use to the system. They can probably also be > found online using a search engine of your choice. > > Should people feel strongly about them, we might be able to move them > over to the doc repository. One paper that should definately be saved is the vi docs. The man page is just a reference, but the paper on vi contains useful information that the man page doesn't cover... One good example is that the man page only has very short descriptions of all the options... The paper has a complete description of what the options do... I guess the real bug is that we've been installing these, but never referencing them, or telling users where they could find them... I.e. in man vi: ``An Introduction to Display Editing with Vi'', found in the ``UNIX User's Manual Supplementary Documents'' section of both the 4.3BSD and 4.4BSD manual sets. This document is the closest thing available to an introduction to the vi screen editor. refers to usd/12.vi/paper.ascii.gz, but no reader of the man page would know that... Same w/ the other docs in the same section.. I'm not sure many users would think to go man hier to see where they are located, or even know that they might be distributed w/ FreeBSD... I think the same thing applies foo memacros and others too... That the man page provides a short reference, and that these provide a more detailed description of what is happening... Are we installing doc by default? If we reference these papers in the man pages, and a user chooses not to install doc when they first install the system, how hard would it be for the user to install the docs? Can they run a simple command to get the docs installed? Maybe having a README in /usr/share/doc explaining that they are now part of the doc repo, and needs to be installed if they aren't part of the baes install.. Some papers I can see go, like psd/06.Clang... Heck, it doesn't even cover C89!?! :) I'm fine w/ cleaning it up, just not wholesale removal... Thanks. -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."