From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 19 09:34:41 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C31B106566B for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:34:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F11958FC29 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:34:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D7C0F1CC060; Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:16:59 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Vadim Goncharov Message-ID: <20080319091659.GA8969@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <2a7894eb0803172207s20aede75w5632bd463654cc77@mail.gmail.com> <2a7894eb0803180812u147de98cnb7cdbfe1e6fe6562@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Need an environment for dynamic web content for freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:34:41 -0000 On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 08:21:01AM +0000, Vadim Goncharov wrote: > >> No. Not PHP. Ever. Forget. > >> > >> It should at least cgi or, as aforemetioned, a wiki-like page. There can be > >> already some wiki engines which allow voting. > > I've not seen any useful voting mechanism implemented on a wiki. > > Pointers? CGI is exactly the kind of 15 year old stagnant web > > technology we are trying to get away from. We need quick templating, > > sessions, high level UI libraries, etc.. > > Yes. > > > All of which things like PHP, Python/Django, etc.. provide. > > They all provide, except PHP :) Every serious PHP project is reinventing > template system, database abastraction layers Because PHP's DBI implementation sucks horribly. One of the worst things about it is that it doesn't support placeholders/binds in query strings. Another horrible aspect is that there's a separate API function name per DBI, rather than using a standard calling convention and let you pick a database driver to use (like perl and most other languages). The only reason people use PHP -- and that includes me (yes, I speak fluent PHP) -- is because it's *convenient*. It interfaces with webservers in a much "nicer" way, and has a significant number of API functions that are more web-friendly than, say, perl. And don't even get me started on how to debug PHP. I hope you enjoy using print/echo repetitively throughout code. I have no interest in Python, because any language which treats whitespace and tabs differently can rot (even assemblers don't behave this way!). And I will strangle whoever recommends Ruby or Ruby on Rails. > > - Murray (who doesn't know/use PHP, but knows that the freebsd > > web presence is notably missing something like it) > > Anything but PHP. Don't choose that buggy, slow, immanently insecure > technology. Please. > > P.S. You can see http://tnx.nl/php for a short summary of PHP drawbacks. Even > Perl is much better. I would agree with this. One can accomplish great things with p5-libwww. The existing CMSs out there (for both PHP and perl) are either horribly written, or bloated beyond belief. The same goes for most Wiki software, again regardless of PHP or perl. Then again, all said comments are coming from a person who's very much a minimalist. :-) -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB |