From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 17 12:51:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D139F37B401 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:51:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D0643E6E for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:51:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0645C8A1A97; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:51:48 -0400 (AST) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:51:47 -0400 (AST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Bill Moran Cc: kalts@estpak.ee, Eugene Grosbein , Kenneth Mays , Subject: Re: -STABLE was stable for long time (Re: FreeBSD: Server or Desktop OS?) In-Reply-To: <3DD7E3D9.1040902@potentialtech.com> Message-ID: <20021117164707.T23359-100000@hub.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Bill Moran wrote: > Vallo Kallaste wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 10:49:45PM +0700, Eugene Grosbein > > wrote: > > > > > >>>Your question brings up an issue that was talked about several > >>>times, and it was addressed in the docs and the newsgroup. > >>>-STABLE is an engineering development branch that is 'more > >>>stable' than -CURRENT, but not more stable than -RELEASE. > >>>-STABLE is NOT for end users/customers for official production > >>>use (i.e. do so at your own risk). > >> > >>I wonder why no one says that -STABLE really WAS stable and WAS intended > >>for end users less than 2 years ago. Moreover, Hanbook said you > >>need -STABLE if you are using FreeBSD in production environment > >>and you need stability, Handbook said it even 15 months ago. > >>And it has been assetring so for long time, that's where the name > >>of this branch came from. Anyone can see that in CVS. > > > > Exactly my point. The stability of FreeBSD is slowly but definitely > > deteriorating. The more the OS is gaining complexity, more bugs will > > be introduced or old bugs surface. As I understand it's very hard to > > support ever changing hardware, growing needs of userbase and hold > > the OS quality (in this context stability) on the track. > > I disagree. > I think the impression of what could be done with -STABLE (in the > developers eyes) has changed because of the RELENG_4_7 branches. > Since anyone interested in production stability should track that > branch instead. What's to track? Nothing happens on that branch ... I just CVSup'd RELEASE, followed by RELENG_4_7 and the only changes were pretty much related to the latest BIND vulnerabilities ... Here's all that has changed in 4_7: Updating collection src-all/cvs Edit src/Makefile.inc1 Edit src/UPDATING Edit src/contrib/bind/CHANGES Edit src/contrib/bind/bin/named/db_defs.h Edit src/contrib/bind/bin/named/db_sec.c Edit src/contrib/bind/bin/named/ns_defs.h Edit src/contrib/bind/bin/named/ns_ncache.c Edit src/contrib/bind/bin/named/ns_req.c Edit src/contrib/bind/bin/named/ns_resp.c Edit src/contrib/bind/lib/nameser/ns_name.c Edit src/contrib/bind/lib/nameser/ns_samedomain.c Edit src/contrib/tar/src/extract.c Edit src/contrib/tar/src/misc.c Edit src/crypto/heimdal/kadmin/version4.c Edit src/crypto/kerberosIV/kadmin/kadm_ser_wrap.c Edit src/kerberos5/include/version.h Edit src/kerberosIV/include/version.h Edit src/lib/libc/net/gethostbydns.c Edit src/lib/libc/net/getnetbydns.c Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/errata/article.sgml Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/hardware/alpha/article.sgml Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/hardware/alpha/proc-alpha.sgml Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/hardware/common/dev.sgml Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/hardware/i386/article.sgml Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/hardware/i386/proc-i386.sgml Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/installation/alpha/article.sgml Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/installation/i386/article.sgml Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/readme/article.sgml Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/relnotes/alpha/article.sgml Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/relnotes/common/new.sgml Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/relnotes/i386/article.sgml Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/share/sgml/catalog Edit src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/share/sgml/release.dsl Delete src/release/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/share/sgml/release.ent Edit src/share/examples/cvsup/standard-supfile Edit src/sys/conf/newvers.sh Finished successfully 20021113: p2 FreeBSD-SA-02:43.bind Correct name server vulnerabilities. 20021023: p1 FreeBSD-SA-02:40.kadmind Correct bug in the tar(1) contains_dot_dot function allowing files to be extracted outside the intended directory tree. Correct kadmind buffer overflow. 20021010: FreeBSD 4.7-RELEASE. Purely security vulnerabilities ... no 'critical patches' ... I would consider most anything related to the VM subsystem to be 'critical', at the very least ... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message