From owner-freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 28 20:26:24 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 083254E3 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 20:26:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller6724@bellsouth.net) Received: from nm11-vm10.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm11-vm10.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9BEB257F for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 20:26:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [66.196.81.165] by nm11.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2013 20:21:00 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.51] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2013 20:21:00 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp104.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2013 20:21:00 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bellsouth.net; s=s1024; t=1377721260; bh=FhTioVOnuDdZaButTJZipcXyHZe4eWl7pQlycxu60qE=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:Message-ID:Date:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:From:To:CC:Subject; b=YI44ouIZd/MwKgNyh79yhqJ9b0wZSxE6utPH3hHjE/X0CSjBCBnvcOMctAqDKYe1228OtYKF0nIjpI+oA/LrhZZH+m4pXBUwJtdja90hKevy0AKp/jS0vEdCU3IvSbKnygBBApxSq0Vblxj0/kzN3A7TO4xXtGJ+ddJ+l2gxVRY= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 682705.3346.bm@smtp104.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Message-ID: <682705.3346.bm@smtp104.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 13:21:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: H2w_j4kVM1mDWuLYLqpLZoo1k_79IdRsrkVtY5IRzomNOIs q48H8HFyCNCemgvRrkqQRvg3F.HSWxYJCictjp0C8lnMbwkkJDY_C_p_1tJt CW6euVBLIBy7u_dmhA3r6XgI30A0oVOTQFWaj_2G1qAhUaZxjsFUu2MrtrJe K6aQ42haYMABYWcOhbqU4rzx_Vd_QkMWua6hj1H8Hk5pAXIq7vJigzCe9uq2 BhfqiJ1QVUTwfpQeQF2UVDY2Iz1.Pj4a_U4wiIuO31KuavTVBV2OeAc0sEY4 qFXQm7Oww9VzKfDFfDJmALV4JtDvS10qXGm8RNKJ8yMY3sJSPfGdOtkVivvb ySNmKAMTlI533L95ekyxNJIckP9Y0HMc8W0K.voSw2L1pFfZblzhRQyqWOlY jgUk1iLvT_acuWel2Tj8Aue1_xfd3PAtHbbrXoL3FwWRcc12FriaP6af5k9Q OhMLSHX4jbdn5vczszRDzGQQ8CmME62QBmFdRuQ9UBT8v8sh_tYZNdLJnMKg XRPs.rlWE75i.c_FLY.2bhQqpaBbxXM7wJIKHuMvJa3t7PG.Zs73WzODhTfk U67H8c4tF X-Yahoo-SMTP: Kz_aW1.swBBYof3zAD7.RWzXz9ZAQVDMml1VADsbgPT4Kq79LC0- X-Rocket-Received: from localhost (mueller6724@74.130.200.176 with plain) by smtp104.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2013 13:21:00 -0700 PDT From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports/156405: x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati driver: no hardware rendering Cc: Matthew Rezny , Niclas Zeising X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 20:26:24 -0000 > I recognize it is in the tree. In fact, its landing in the tree is what > provoked me to respond to this PR at the this time. However, I just saw > a statement somewhere on wiki or ML that it would not be ready for real > use for another 1-2 years. From the announcement of it coming into > -CURRENT, I get the impression it is really not usable beyond testing. > Lacking a working console after Xorg loads is a total show stopper in > my opinion (and why I can't call the Intel KMS stuff anything more than > testing a year after it went in tree). Sure the serial console works, > but that is only practical for testing, not daily use as a desktop. > Forget use on a laptop as I haven't seen a serial port on one of those > in a LONG time, not to mention the impractically of carrying some > other device to be the console for my laptop, already a device that is > massively inferior to a desktop in every way other than portability. I had this type of problem with NetBSD 5.1_STABLE and 5.99.x even with native X that is part of the base system, as opposed to pkgsrc X. I could return to a text console in the dark and type "shutdown -r now" or even type the command to go back into X, successfully. Can that be done with FreeBSD, new Xorg and KMS, or is the system just crashed? With serial ports becoming obsolete, what can one use for or in place of a serial console? Would it work to have two xorg.conf files, one with Intel driver and the other with vesa? Then could you go back to a working console when using the vesa driver? I've wondered (call it X acrobatics) how to switch between root and nonroot, and between window managers, without going back to text console. I used OS/2 from 1.3 to Warp 4, until the single-digit days of April 2001 when it crashed, then chkdsk ran amok on reboot and trashed the hard-drive data. I was never able to boot OS/2 again, even from floppies. I repartitioned/reformatted the hard disk but was left with Linux and DR-DOS 7.03. Now it seems Linux and FreeBSD, even NetBSD, have far overtaken OS/2, now eComStation, for hardware support and usability. Tom