From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG  Mon Dec  8 02:51:45 2003
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F269B16A4CF
	for <freebsd-security@freebsd.org>;
	Mon,  8 Dec 2003 02:51:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: from dire.bris.ac.uk (dire.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.60])
	by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5EF543FE9
	for <freebsd-security@freebsd.org>;
	Mon,  8 Dec 2003 02:51:39 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from Jan.Grant@bristol.ac.uk)
Received: from mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk by dire.bris.ac.uk with SMTP-PRIV 
          with ESMTP; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:51:29 +0000
Received: from cmjg (helo=localhost)	by mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk 
          with local-esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1)	id 1ATIxm-0003Mg-00;
          Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:50:02 +0000
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:50:02 +0000 (GMT)
From: Jan Grant <Jan.Grant@bristol.ac.uk>
X-X-Sender: cmjg@mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk
To: Roger Marquis <marquis@roble.com>
In-Reply-To: <20031207204521.195E9DAC92@mx7.roble.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0312081045300.15156@mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk>
References: <20031207200130.C4B1216A4E0@hub.freebsd.org>
	<20031207204521.195E9DAC92@mx7.roble.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: Jan Grant <Jan.Grant@bristol.ac.uk>
cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: possible compromise or just misreading logs
X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
List-Id: Security issues [members-only posting]
	<freebsd-security.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security>,
	<mailto:freebsd-security-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-security>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-security@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-security-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security>,
	<mailto:freebsd-security-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:51:45 -0000

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003, Roger Marquis wrote:

> No production environment should be without Tripwire (1.3 is my
> favorite version).  With the right wrapper script
> <http://www.roble.com/docs/twcheck> and off-line backups it's
> impossible to compromise a system without being detected.

Unless there's another step you're not mentioning (eg, rebooting to an
OS installed on a physically write-protected device, or remounting your
drive on another machine with a trusted OS) "impossible" is probably too
strong a term here.

There's an implicit trust in using a system to integrity-hceck itself.

-- 
jan grant, ILRT, University of Bristol. http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/
Tel +44(0)117 9287088 Fax +44 (0)117 9287112 http://ioctl.org/jan/
We thought time travel was impossible. But that was now and this is then.