From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 19:04:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17740 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:04:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA17599 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:03:34 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrD-23.aei.ca [206.186.204.173]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17009; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353D4FE8.CB060112@aei.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:03:20 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies References: <353BB623.59353921@aei.ca> <19980421183744.56403@welearn.com.au> <353D0BF9.E6B2193@aei.ca> <19980422102451.37232@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 05:13:30PM -0400, Malartre wrote: > > [entire original message quoted and ignored - deleted] > > > The main Idea is than newbies cannot really ask a question on any of the > > #FreeBSD I have visited. > > OK. Does that mean that the reason you want a newbies channel is purely > that you want a channel where you *can* ask questions? Like I said, who > will answer them? As someone pointed out recently, if it is only newbies > then the advice given will be the worst advice available anywhere on > FreeBSD. > > > On Efnet #FreeBSD, a guy say to me than I was (not the exactly term he use...) > > stupid because of a *stupid* question on FTP. > > Maybe those people want to talk to people using FreeBSD, not people > learning FreeBSD, and they feel like you are making them work :-) If there > was #freebsd-newbies on efnet as well as #freebsd, that might make it > better for everyone. People on #freebsd wouldn't have to hear newbie > questions and newbies on efnet would have somewhere to go. It sounds like > there's a lot of newbies there already. I don't see enough people talking > about it here to sustain a channel in a new place. > > You will always find hostility on irc if you take a channel for > intermediate users and try to force them to deal with newbies. If you want > to see the strongest hostility toward newbies that exists, you will > probably find that if you go to where freebsd developers are trying to > work together and get in their way, in any medium. > > > So anyway, I think we should have a channel for newbies. > > The problem with multiple #freebsd-newbies is than we are not a lot or > > people right now. > > And how are we going to increase the number of newbies using irc? > What do we have to offer? > > > So irc.freebsd.org should be fine. > > I asked on -hackers what they thought of this. So far a couple replied > in -chat saying they can't see any problem, a couple replied in -hackers > saying they would be very worried if we tried that, and some were so > upset they wrote to me privately explaining (not always in nice > language!) some reasons why we should not go there. Maybe there are more > comments on both sides still to come, maybe even suggestions for how we > could make it work well. Would you like a summary of what they said? > > > what are you thinking? > > I'm thinking that whatever a group of newbies wants to do by themselves > is OK, IF AND ONLY IF they have thought it through and understand the > consequences. All newbies will be held responsible for the outcomes. > IRC is a very public place. > > I posted some questions here to help you and others think it through. So > far they have been ignored. I don't mind that. Someone else might have a > better list of questions to consider. What I'd like to see is some brain > involvement before actions, but maybe that's too restrictive for newbies. > > All I see so far, though, looks like lack of forethought, willingness to > work hard but unwillingness to take responsibility for the outcomes or > even consider what they might be. I repeat, this is not school! You are > expected to be mature enough to make your own decisions after doing the > necessary research, as well as suffering the consequences (to yourself > and others) if the decisions are not wisely made. > > There is no directing other than your own ability to analyse the > situation and act appropriately, and there is certainly no teacher to > come along and tidy up after class. Do your research, plan carefully, > discuss, incorporate the good ideas from others, and then you can do > anything you like with the whole community's support. Skimp on planning, > and you can still do whatever you want but you won't get the support you > need to make it work. > > Does anyone have the guts to answer the questions I posted earlier, or to > substitute their own? > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > find / -name "*.conf" |more *brain-dead* newbies as in the mail on hackers@freebsd.org Sue, your a very logic person :-) I will answer your question (if i find the mail, I will try) Well, a channel need to start somewhere. Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message