From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 18 21:41:57 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76EB3B02; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:41:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrnils@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-x232.google.com (mail-ob0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::232]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB2A4DA7; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:41:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f178.google.com with SMTP id wd20so5921155obb.9 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:41:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=W3Dsy9YSVX70y5vYtHEN3rpPjACWZ5c+BI644aJcotY=; b=FjcrWGne37y9NyRCRsPYkAxHJPt/z0+nsGUkjvSUq2BORTA5G/lbuOwksmqP+hOWbE ajnawByYuntCkvg0Ev0++ou35oY0vi3CD9D2Us0yd4HivmrLvgZy5JZVwJifj8k5lpBn 1RoTI/D04Y2G8s3q9H+pLPmHI2Y7VN9r6aSJdPJNMKfU4/kWkCMD1Qbp3IoCtZgPtAfo E/iBnXiQn/6Ay2hmtR0NwZlm0RiFMNUBiCLpg4MbsDR4BkOHf0m6r2uu9jXJpooPQ07K w7XzhBBS0WblV2KGgxncf7hb0PR3Xncg0mOALZ/AQDMLVVWXqFp+jXz4fW1xwDtSdhD5 bXaA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.98.109 with SMTP id eh13mr7703972obb.50.1363642916590; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.94.12 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:41:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20807.21192.655076.142290@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <51474796.1030808@a1poweruser.com> <1363627802-7836632.18463322.fr2IHTIkR030230@rs149.luxsci.com> <20807.21192.655076.142290@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 22:41:56 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Handbook Jail Chapter rewrite available for critique From: Andreas Nilsson To: Robert Huff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, Fbsd8 , FreeBSD questions , freebsd-current X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:41:57 -0000 On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Robert Huff wrote: > > Isaac (.ike) Levy writes: > > > Pretty heavy cross-posting here, could you perhaps reign this in > > to the freebsd-jail@ list, where it can be discussed in-context? > > This will help keep the noise down. > > It will also keep down the signal from people who use or are > interested in jails, but do not (and do not plan to) subscribe to > that list. > Respectfully, > > > Robert Huff > > Great! There really was a need to modernize the handbook with regards to jails. Since I'm not a native English speaker I'll leave grammar and spelling for those who are ;) My first impressions are along the lines: To much scripts, to few examples/scenarios. Our users are smart, show them what can be accomplished with "high-level" config, leave minutiae to some part of the appendix. Also the exclusion of zfs and vnet is surprising, as those really make jails shine, imo ( although jails really need to be thought about the "gray" area visa-vi networking in rc-scripts that vnet provides ). How about the resource control, which further makes jails really spiffy. I would have preferred top-level separation of the different methods, ie after the introduction there was one "track" manual, one for old-school rc-, one for new-school rc- and one for jail.conf-style jails. More specifically I agree with Isaac Levy's, especially in regards to the "jail cell" terminology: "16.1 Synopsis": the term jail cell is used, long before being defined. "16.2 Introduction": Mentioning jail cells in a historic contest is imho a "blatant" lie ( they were never known as such ). As far as I know, no official documentation has called them cells, either. That does not mean that it's not an appropriate term, though. As a contrast there is Solaris vocabulary of zones ( "cells" ) and global zone ( "jail system" ). In this regard I prefer the solaris one. Most importantly, a large chunk of 16.2 would imo fit much better as a "history"-appendix. Current and new users don't need to know and consider the limitations of earlier implementations. The "generations" talked about could perhaps be quantified with a release version :) There are, as stated by Isaac Levy, many (good) utils for managing jails. Why the focus on qjail? I also think that most of the strong points of jails are rendered moot without, in order, zfs and vimage. Linux jails might also interest quite a few people. Best regards Andreas