Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 03:33:17 -0700 From: "Gilbert Gong" <ggong@cal.alumni.berkeley.edu> To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>, "j mckitrick" <jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org>, <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: BSD, .Net comments - any reponse to this reasoning? Message-ID: <001301c103ab$928400e0$2a5fa640@ggongw2k> References: <001401c1039e$b0327f20$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> To: "Gilbert Gong" <ggong@cal.alumni.berkeley.edu>; "j mckitrick" <jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org>; <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 2:01 AM Subject: RE: BSD, .Net comments - any reponse to this reasoning? > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > >[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Gilbert Gong > >Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 3:58 PM > >To: j mckitrick; freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > >Subject: Re: BSD, .Net comments - any reponse to this reasoning? > > > > > >A few other points.. > >1) I hesitate to defend Bill Gates, but the man has given a lot of money to > >charity (and I mean a lot, even considering how much he has). As much as I > >like the idea of free software, when the man has given say $100 Million to > >fight Aids, $1 billion to the United Negro College Fund, $750 million to > >support immunization of children in the poorest countries, etc etc > >(see http://www.gatesfoundation.org/about/grantlist.asp?mode=&search= ) I > >have a hard time seeing him as "the single most disgusting person in the > >entire world". There's a lot more to this world than software.. > > > > I hesitate to turn this into a religious argument, but I think you should > reread The Little Drummer Boy or the story about the church bells that > would ring only when a gift that was worthy was left (I forget the name > of the story) or any number of giving stories like this. The point is > that while giving to the community should be a regular part of people's > lives, it's only when an individual devotes their entire being to the > gift that it truly indicates a striving to touch God in the individual. I'll see if I can look up those stories though, I have never read them, but I would probably find them worthwhile. So it's a stretch to relate this back to -advocacy, but why not try? In the end, I do not think any of our "public" sentiments should have any form of personal attack to them. As they say about BSD Advocacy, or lack thereof, we don't really have any big spokesperson, and therefore no one to accidentally make comments that the media can take out of context and cause all sorts of ruckus. With the increased media attention, I think it behooves us to be ready to give answers to the questions we may be asked, that are more palatable to the public. Many of us have varied and strong opinions. That is great and wonderful. But, well I'm starting to ramble. Sorry, I have a point but I do not know myself what it is. At some point though, someone will be coming back to FreeBSD, and asking "So what do you think of all this attention Bill Gates and Microsoft is suddenly giving to FreeBSD?" And you know this person is going to be doing their best to evoke some sort of negative, detractory, or snide comment from whoever they are interviewing. And I think we should be ready, with an answer that we have given some thought to. [stuff cut] > technology or education into technology. There's a seeding of future > Microsoft sales here that should be obvious. Hm, didn't notice that ;) > Call me a hard-ass but I'd have a lot more respect for their giving if Bill > Gates > himself volunteered at least 4 hours a week, every week, dishing out soup in > a soup kitchen, or assisting in a clinic, or otherwise directly working with > the needy people, rather than simply having one of his employees peel off > another million or two from the company coffers. After all he's so rich > that he doesen't have to work a lick of time for the rest of his life, he's > far more able to take 4 hours a week doing this than you or I who are wage > slaves. It also might do wonders to improve his own morality, which frankly > would do more to help the computer industry than any number of anti-trust > lawsuits. Bill and Melinda may be giving, but on the other side of the door > Bill is running a large corporation that is basically involved in criminal > activities. There's a disconnect here between personal morality and how he > conducts his business that should be obvious. If his personal giving would > have a positive effect on his own morality then I'd applaud it, but I don't > see any evidence of this - very likely because he himself is only connected > to the administrative operations of their Foundation, and doesen't regularly > devote personal time to the one-on-one work with the needy that he's > funding. Give him time, I think as he gets older he'll become a better person. I would say, I am convinced there has been _some_ progress in his personal morality. That there could be more progress, no doubt. The same is true for all of us, I would be willing to say ;) The odd thing is, perhaps we need to hammer out what the "religious" aspect of FreeBSD is. What I mean is, for Stallman, ESR, and other GNU/Linux advocates, their attachment is very much a belief in the goodness and morality of their cause, and they are very vocal about it. While perhaps many BSD people have learned to be quiet, both as a matter of letting peace replace war, and because perhaps our belief also includes an attitude of "you do what you want, I'm not going to bother you," perhaps it is worthwhile to clearly explain the attitude behind the BSD license. Concretely, I suppose what I am thinking is (atleast as a start): If you browse the netbsd and openbsd sites, when you click on the links that describe how their OS is "free", you get pages such as: http://www.openbsd.org/policy.html http://www.netbsd.org/Goals/redistribution.html When you do the same for FreeBSD, you get: http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/index.html I love that FreeBSD strives (in my interpretation) to let the code/license speak for itself. But what's good because I like it is not necessarily good for advocacy. Perhaps making real progress in advocacy means we need to have a clearer, bolder voice. Perhaps what we need is an "Advocacy Officer" or something. On the other hand, perhaps the slow, steady progress we have always been making, where we let our code speak louder than our words, has done just as good a job as anything else getting us where we want, in mindshare and whatnot. I don't know, and apologies for rambling :) > > >Projects such as Linux and FreeBSD cannot be forced out of > >business, as long > >as there are volunteers working on them, they still live. Even when no one > >works on the project, as long as the code is archived somewhere, it has the > >opportunity to be ressurrected someday when the need returns.. > > > > Unfortunately, archived code is pretty worthless after a short period of > time. > > If you want, you can get any of the old UNIX BSD code that was run on the > VAX or PDP's it's out there for purchase for the cost of the media. But, if > a group was starting out from scratch to port one of the old distributions > to the PC today, it would take an immense amount of effort. You probably > could > write it from scratch just as easily. > I'll take your word for it, as I don't intend to look at the old VAX BSD code anytime soon, nor to start from scratch on FreeBSD/VAX. ;) Gilbert > Open Source can be killed, through neglect. For example, a number of Open > Source > device drivers in FreeBSD itself have already become extinct. (Ultrastor > 14f, > Seagate ST01, Intel Etherexpress16/3c507, etc.) > > > Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com > Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide > Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
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