From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 31 07:33:32 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C82CAD; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:33:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@h2.funkthat.com) Received: from h2.funkthat.com (gate2.funkthat.com [208.87.223.18]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFB222096; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:33:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from h2.funkthat.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by h2.funkthat.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id r7V7XUTI061470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 00:33:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@h2.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by h2.funkthat.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id r7V7XUEg061469; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 00:33:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 00:33:30 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: John Baldwin Subject: Re: GCC withdraw Message-ID: <20130831073330.GC36239@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: John Baldwin , David Chisnall , Boris Samorodov , "Sam Fourman Jr." , toolchain@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current References: <20130822200902.GG94127@funkthat.com> <201308291344.25562.jhb@freebsd.org> <201308301041.18874.jhb@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201308301041.18874.jhb@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.2-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 54BA 873B 6515 3F10 9E88 9322 9CB1 8F74 6D3F A396 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html X-to-the-FBI-CIA-and-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? can i haz chizburger? X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (h2.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 00:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Cc: "Sam Fourman Jr." , Boris Samorodov , David Chisnall , FreeBSD Current , toolchain@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:33:32 -0000 John Baldwin wrote this message on Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 10:41 -0400: > So I think the crux of the issue might be this: > > I have no doubt that this has been discussed extensively on toolchain@ and in > toolchain-specific devsummit sessions. The proposal to disable GCC by default > does not appear to have been discussed in a wider audience from what I can > tell. (I can't find any relevant threads on arch@ or current@ prior to this > one.) While this is a toolchain-specific decision, it is a very broad > decision. Also, we aren't here because of a new thread started intentionally > to say "Hey, we as the toolchain folks think we should disable GCC by default > on 10 for x86". Instead, we started off in a thread about adding AES > instructions to our binutils and out of left field there is an e-mail of > "Oh, don't bother cause I'm disabling GCC next week" (paraphrase). Can you > appreciate at all that this is a total surprise to people who aren't > subscribed to toolchain@ and haven't been to a toolchain session at a > devsummit and that this looks like a drive-by change? Why didn't this come up when John added XSAVE (a year ago) or Pedro Giffuni added amdfam10 support (3 months ago)? Plus, I've sent other patches earlier this year to -toolchain and made clear why I was adding them... Had I known that the policy was gcc was dead for HEAD (which btw, I was told multiple times that we were keeping gcc for 10 for i386/amd64), I would have just committed my kernel changes by now, but didn't want to break a (what I thought was) supported configuration... We need to communicate better on issues like these, since this isn't the first time one group of people made a decision w/o telling the rest of the community... For major items like this, we need to make sure the road map is published, either on www.freebsd.org or on the wiki and gets kept up to date... For example, the release schedule for 10 wasn't posted till over a week after the code slush was announced (which caught people, like myself, by surprise)... That's kinda the wrong order to do it in, the schedule should be posted well in advance so people know what to expect... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."