From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Mon Jun 15 21:12:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7FD134401F; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 21:12:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49m3tv5gd6z3XtM; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 21:12:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id 05FLCF4h078087; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id 05FLCFqc078086; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <202006152112.05FLCFqc078086@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: svn commit: r362191 - head/sbin/md5 In-Reply-To: To: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT) CC: Mateusz Piotrowski <0mp@freebsd.org>, "Rodney W. Grimes" , =?UTF-8?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=C3=ADa?= , src-committers , svn-src-all , svn-src-head Reply-To: rgrimes@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49m3tv5gd6z3XtM X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net has no SPF policy when checking 69.59.192.140) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.54 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[rgrimes@freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.31)[0.314]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; REPLYTO_DOM_NEQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dnsmgr.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.36)[0.365]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.96)[0.960]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13868, ipnet:69.59.192.0/19, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 21:12:24 -0000 > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:34 AM Mateusz Piotrowski <0mp@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > On 6/15/20 2:33 PM, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > [ Charset UTF-8 unsupported, converting... ] > > >> Author: fernape (ports committer) > > >> Date: Mon Jun 15 10:08:02 2020 > > >> New Revision: 362191 > > >> URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/362191 > > >> > > >> Log: > > >> md5(1): fix style in man page > > > > > > Mandoc is fine to ignore this, but it is wrong to call it useless. > > > > > > I really wish that this stop. .Tn might be useless to mandoc, > > > but it is a very usable thing if your formatting to something > > > other than txt, as in a ps or pdf. > > > > In that case I would consider patching our in-tree mandoc to not warn > > about Tn. Or request support for Tn or a well-defined replacement upstream. > > > > I can see the benefit of keeping Tn around, as it /might/ potentially > > create nice formatting for HTML. On the other hand, I don't like the > > idea of not following the linter. > > > > I thought that Tn thing was the general consensus thing and added to the > linter because of that. The man page explains why it's problematic: > > Tn word ... > Supported only for compatibility, do not use this in new manuals. > Even though the macro name ("tradename") suggests a semantic > function, historic usage is inconsistent, mostly using it as a > presentation-level macro to request a small caps font. I believe that comes about because of confusion over trade name vs trademark. They are not defined as the same thing. > It was useful for the Unix trademark, but was tailor towards AT&T's > preferred dressing for the Unix trademark, not for trademarks in general. Crossing tradename with trademark? > In this case, there were several instances of abuse: > > -.Tn RSA . > +key under a public-key cryptosystem such as RSA. trade name: noun 1. the name used by a manufacturer, merchant, service company, farming business, etc., to identify itself individually as a business. 2. a word or phrase used in a trade to designate a business, service, or a particular class of goods, but that is not technically a trademark, either because it is not susceptible of exclusive appropriation as a trademark or because it is not affixed to goods sold in the market. 3. the name by which an article or substance is known to the trade. I would say RSA defanitly meets 3, and probably 2. > > Not a trademark in this context. RSA is a trademark for the RSA corporation > and it uses it in various other contexts. > > -The > -.Tn MD5 > -and > -.Tn SHA-1 > -algorithms have been proven to be vulnerable to practical collision > -attacks and should not be relied upon to produce unique outputs, > +The MD5 and SHA-1 algorithms have been proven to be vulnerable to practical > +collision attacks and should not be relied upon to produce unique outputs, > > MD5 and SHA-1 are not trade names in this context. The rest seem similar, > though I've not gone to the trouble to look them all up. I would disagree under the definition of trade name above, you seem to be applying the definition of trade mark. > > All in all, while I have some sympathy to Rod's view that we're losing > semantic information by these changes in general, this particular one > actually fixes the abuse talked about in the mdoc manual, IMHO. Only if the macro is rigidly defined as "trademark" and it is not. > Warner -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org