From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 21 5:28:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A91DA37B401; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:28:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95FCC43E4A; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:28:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gALDSSpk079820; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 06:28:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 06:28:09 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20021121.062809.64538355.imp@bsdimp.com> To: ru@FreeBSD.org Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Cross-Development with NetBSD From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20021121102050.GC81999@sunbay.com> References: <20021121151714.U961-100000@squirm.dsto.defence.gov.au> <20021121.001014.56348240.imp@bsdimp.com> <20021121102050.GC81999@sunbay.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <20021121102050.GC81999@sunbay.com> Ruslan Ermilov writes: : On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 12:10:14AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: : > In message: <20021121151714.U961-100000@squirm.dsto.defence.gov.au> : > "Wilkinson,Alex" writes: : > : Is FreeBSD likely to follow the in footsteps of NetBSD and create a framework to do crossbuilds ? : > : : > : http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200211/xdevnetbsd.html : > : > FreeBSD already has cross builds for a while, since before NetBSD's : > cross build infrastructure. However, NetBSD's infrastructure is a : > little more extensive because it is possible to do incremental builds : > and build full releases that work in a cross build evironment. : > : What do you mean by "incremental builds and full releases that work ..."? ruslan, First and foremost, I ment no disrespect in what I said. You have made the upgrade path for FreeBSD almost painless for a wide range of releases (less painful than NetBSD has been at times for me). You gave FreeBSD the ability to cross build world about a year or a year and a half ahead of NetBSD's similarly integrated ability. NetBSD builds a directory full of tools that you can later use to incrementally build, say, 'ls' or 'cat' because one can define USETOOLS to be 'yes' and have the make automatically pick them up when rebuilding. There are a few of the details I'm a little unclear on, but that's the jist of it. Second, the NetBSD have tested almost all of their platforms in a cross build release scenario. They know that the binaries that result from 'make release' build on i386 actually boot on the target platform. They have build 1.6.x for many of their platforms this way. So far, the FreeBSD has done all its builds natively. One of the cool things about the NetBSD approach, btw, is that they have a src/tools directory. This directory lists all the build tools for building in one place. I think that this is a little cleaner than what we have in the Makefile.inc1 right now. On the other hand, it is a lot more complicated than what we have now, and I'm not sure that added complexity is worth it. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message