From owner-freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Sun Apr 29 21:20:05 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 392DDFB953A; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 21:20:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wjw@digiware.nl) Received: from smtp.digiware.nl (smtp.digiware.nl [IPv6:2001:4cb8:90:ffff::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C127276035; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 21:20:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wjw@digiware.nl) Received: from router.digiware.nl (localhost.digiware.nl [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.digiware.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57BA43DD27; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 23:20:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at digiware.com Received: from smtp.digiware.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by router.digiware.nl (router.digiware.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pns3VvmlAITH; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 23:20:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.11.152] (unknown [192.168.11.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.digiware.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 462423DD26; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 23:20:01 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Getting ZFS pools back. To: Warner Losh , Jan Knepper Cc: Alan Somers , FreeBSD Filesystems , FreeBSD Hackers , Richard Yao References: <5f836c79-b379-f066-689b-1645e393c5e9@digiware.nl> <1645b168-4133-693c-2dd3-8e0606abb9c3@digiware.nl> <07576f68-f67e-3a22-7a50-ff261c9b3fff@digitaldaemon.com> From: Willem Jan Withagen Message-ID: <7588abf8-16e4-8820-a0e5-e019a02a7bd6@digiware.nl> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 23:20:02 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 21:20:05 -0000 On 29/04/2018 20:21, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 11:57 AM, Jan Knepper > wrote: > > On 04/29/2018 13:27, Willem Jan Withagen wrote: > > Trouble started when I installed (freebsd-update) 11.1 over a > running 10.4. Which is sort of scarry? > > This does sounds 'scary' as I am planning to do this in the (near) > future... > > Has anyone else experienced issues like this? > > Generally I do build the new system software on a running system, > but then go to single user mode to perform the actual install. > > I have done many upgrades like that over 18 or so years and never > seen or heard of an issue alike this. > > > 11.x binaries aren't guaranteed to work with a 10.x kernel. So that's a > bit of a problem. freebsd-update shouldn't have let you do that either. > > However, most 11.x binaries work well enough to at least bootstrap / fix > problems if booted on a 10.x kernel due to targeted forward > compatibility. You shouldn't count on it for long, but it generally > won't totally brick your box. In the past, and I believe this is still > true, they work well enough to compile and install a new kernel after > pulling sources. The 10.x -> 11.x syscall changes are such that you > should be fine. At least if you are on UFS. I have been doing those kind of this for years and years. Even upgrading over NFS and stuff. Sometimes it is a bit too close to the sun and things burn. But never crash this bad. > However, the ZFS ioctls and such are in the bag of 'don't specifically > guarantee and also they change a lot' so that may be why you can't mount > ZFS by UUID. I've not checked to see if there's specifically an issue > here or not. The ZFS ABI is somewhat more fragile than other parts of > the system, so you may have issues here. > > If all else fails, you may be able to PXE boot an 11 kernel, or boot off > a USB memstick image to install a kernel. Tried just about replace everything in both the boot-partition (First growing it to take > 64K gptzfsboot) and in /boot from the memstick. But the error never went away. Never had ZFS die on me this bad, that I could not get it back. > Generally, while we don't guarantee forward compatibility (running newer > binaries on older kernels), we've generally built enough forward compat > so that things work well enough to complete the upgrade. That's why you > haven't hit an issue in 18 years of upgrading. However, the velocity of > syscall additions has increased, and we've gone from fairly stable > (stale?) ABIs for UFS to a more dynamic one for ZFS where backwards > compat is a bit of a crap shoot and forward compat isn't really there at > all. That's likely why you've hit a speed bump here. Come to think of it, I did not do this step with freebsd-update, since I was not at an official release yet. I was going to 11.1-RELEASE, to be able to start using freebsd-update. So I don't think I did just do that.... But I tried so much yesterday. Normally I would installkernel, reboot, installworld, mergemaster, reboot for systems that are not up for freebsd-update. --WjW