From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 19 05:03:57 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FAC7106566B for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 05:03:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy2-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy2-pub.bluehost.com [67.222.39.60]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1AC298FC0A for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 05:03:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 23858 invoked by uid 0); 19 Feb 2011 05:03:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2011 05:03:55 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=apotheon.com; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Mail-Followup-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:X-Identified-User; b=OfIRd6Pm7p4RyGNHBY4YJ2lyHnHGQQD9YigchbWC9JKRfvhoevHlewEMtDlNBQUzJPxamh7vABCyT5tMMMmhkuDiVpZHXfdRbS87GKqDjoqgJzFJCqt3cpFt/Z8XMtVi; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=kukaburra.hydra) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pqez3-00054Z-QY for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:03:55 -0700 Received: by kukaburra.hydra (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 18 Feb 2011 21:53:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 21:53:23 -0700 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110219045323.GA85885@guilt.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <3380813072-1551442120@intranet.com.mx> <20110218032357.GD2049@comcast.net> <20110218050620.GA81273@guilt.hydra> <3380884944-1551442343@intranet.com.mx> <20110218234413.GA84864@guilt.hydra> <19807.16937.790123.255479@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <19807.16937.790123.255479@jerusalem.litteratus.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.org} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with ren@apotheon.org} Subject: Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 05:03:57 -0000 --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 11:08:09PM -0500, Robert Huff wrote: >=20 > Chad Perrin writes: > > > > In my experience, ThinkPads are among the highest quality laptops > > on the market. >=20 > At one point, Thinkpads - particularly the T4x series - were > _the_ recommended used laptop. While it's been a while since i > looked into this formally, my grapevine says the quality went > downhill quickly after Lenovo bought IBM's pc hardware division. I think that's a gross exaggeration. I had my fears/doubts about how well the ThinkPad line would hold its quality after the purchase, but I kept using it as long as I did not see any reason to stop. I have not seen a reason to stop. That is not to say that there were not some hitches. There was some talk of a lower-quality keyboard (too much flex in it) than in previous models on one model; I think it was the T500. Lenovo moved quickly to solve the problem, though, and gave people free replacement keyboards. If there has been a technical degradation in quality for ThinkPads under Lenovo's direction, it has been so minute as to not bring it down to the level of the run of relatively high-end laptops from other major manufacturers, so I don't see *too* much room to complain. In the twentyish ThinkPads that I have had, the hardware problems I have had include: 1. a screen that went out on a twelve year old ThinkPad (I don't recall the model number) 2. a screen that went out on a T60 this year -- but it was acquired from a sketchy refurbisher, and refurbished with parts from that refurbisher 3. a P3 600E that a friend of mine managed to fry (she killed electronics by touching them on a regular basis) 4. a T42p that spontaneously combusted (sorta: I smelled burning plastic and turned it off, rescued the hard drive, and -- because it was actually my employer's laptop -- got it replaced under warranty) 5. two batteries died after years of use That's all the hardware failures I've seen, and in most cases they lasted longer than any desktop system I've had. The rest of them -- those that did not suffer hardware failures -- just got handed down to others, one way or another, when I replaced them. Notice that exactly one of those was a Lenovo-built laptop. There are currently five Lenovo-built ThinkPads in my home -- an R52 (just post-transition from IBM to Lenovo), a T60, an X60 Tablet, a T500, and a T510. Of them, the only one with a hardware problem is the T60 with a dead screen, which is currently serving as a desktop system until I get around to setting up the T510 to cover what the T60 does for me. I'm not in a *huge* hurry, since I can ssh to the T60 and connect to a tmux session. That's one Lenovo-built laptop with which I've had any hardware failures, and it's the one that passed through the hands of a very shady refurbisher on its way to me. That's not to say there have not been problems since the Lenovo acquisition, but those problems are related to service rather than manufacture. For instance, their ordering process is a bit less sophisticated behind the scenes (they actually use a spreadsheet to track orders, apparently), and part of their technical service chain of operations has been outsourced. On the other hand, IdeaPads are something entirely of Lenovo invention, as far as I can tell. They're kinda like how ThinkPads might be if they were made by Dell -- superficially similar in some ways, but with crappier manufacture quality, fit and finish, reliability, keyboard feel, et cetera. In short, if there has been a substantive drop in manufacturing and hardware quality, I have not seen it. I suppose your mileage may vary. --=20 Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk1fTMMACgkQ9mn/Pj01uKWRXgCdEUj8xExJAq38ckL/dm8vAE6G jEEAnRoxuKn+2MGJTrFFurQkKjrz67z8 =Wh2o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi--