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Sat, 9 Aug 2025 15:19:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ThreadId: T3e9ca0f36eb84e30 Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2025 12:19:04 -0700 From: "Pat Maddox" To: "Brandon Allbery" , "DutchDaemon - FreeBSD Forums Administrator" Cc: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "FreeBSD CURRENT" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Message-Id: <90f83695-286f-4e95-b2a4-98e1cae5da4e@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <79429D6B-7948-4D27-9F14-664CC075547A@FreeBSD.org> <7D0CD326-0CB0-41F0-99C2-BFEB9F4DC1EA@FreeBSD.org> <81470e1f-5a91-453b-a1aa-20a7e9fb8855@FreeBSD.org> <33CC4995-5B1D-4640-A5B0-2E7AD599D5BA@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.54 / 15.00]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.948]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[patmaddox.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:103.168.172.128/27:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[patmaddox.com:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[103.168.172.152:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[patmaddox.com:+,messagingengine.com:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:151847, ipnet:103.168.172.0/24, country:AU]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[pat]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzrLs1mJJz4Bqb X-Spamd-Bar: -- On Fri, Aug 8, 2025, at 8:44 AM, Brandon Allbery wrote: > On Fri, Aug 8, 2025 at 11:30=E2=80=AFAM DutchDaemon - FreeBSD Forums=20 > Administrator wrote: >> (trying to see the upside) > > As stated earlier in the thread: embedded hardware which wants as=20 > minimal a base system as they can get away with. The flip side of the=20 > all-encompassing base system is that it's *big*. And grown considerabl= y=20 > since the early days, making the early-days management of base a=20 > problem now. I understand where you're coming from. It's also doable today, right? Yo= u set the knobs you want in src.conf and make.conf, and you get a smalle= r base system. I assume this is reasonable for people doing custom embed= ded hardware systems. Fine-grained packages makes it more convenient to do this, without havin= g to build base yourself. One question I have is, does this make things = more broadly effective? One of the reasons I came back to FreeBSD is precisely because in Linux = container land, I had no idea what the system was running. The OS could = be alpine or debian. Someone could have decided that `ps` shouldn't be i= nstalled (true story, that was fun to debug). Core utils are installed w= ith busybox, so grep flags match neither GNU nor BSD, and scripts break. Today, I can say "It's a FreeBSD system, I know this." [1] I immediately= know what its base capabilities are, and what its enhanced capabilities= are through third-party software. I suppose that will remain true, the = only thing being that it will have fewer base capabilities out of the bo= x. Additional capabilities then behave more like third-party software, j= ust provided and tested by the project. Pat [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DdFUlAQZB9Ng