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Date:      Mon, 05 Oct 2020 19:58:53 +0200
From:      Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu>
To:        Eric McCorkle <eric@metricspace.net>
Cc:        Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Mounting encrypted ZFS datasets/GELI for users?
Message-ID:  <20201005175853.4OgAF%steffen@sdaoden.eu>
In-Reply-To: <00dbfac0-6c6f-355e-c21b-db2cae3a87e4@metricspace.net>
References:  <8d467e98-237f-c6a2-72de-94c0195ec964@metricspace.net> <CAOtMX2hbt-2MBryLUJLU9CLgvZO29vNzMwtSrR1YXvknHFaGjA@mail.gmail.com> <630f9133-4f67-92bd-41f9-fb04d985c159@metricspace.net> <CAOtMX2jk9YzmKSQGaTAmwBgKK4AVW0%2B%2BbtJR6kxM%2Ba=NYjjjqg@mail.gmail.com> <00dbfac0-6c6f-355e-c21b-db2cae3a87e4@metricspace.net>

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Eric McCorkle wrote in
 <00dbfac0-6c6f-355e-c21b-db2cae3a87e4@metricspace.net>:
 |On 10/5/20 11:50 AM, Alan Somers wrote:
 |> On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 9:40 AM Eric McCorkle <eric@metricspace.net
 |> <mailto:eric@metricspace.net>> wrote:
 |>=20
 |>     On 10/5/20 11:12 AM, Alan Somers wrote:
 |>=20
 |>> First of all, what kind of thread are you concerned with?=C2=A0 Disk
 |>> encryption does not protect against an attacker with access to a live
 |>> machine; it only protects against an attacker with access to an off
 |>> machine, or to the bare HDDs.=C2=A0 Per-user encryption would presumab=
ly
 |>> protect one user from another user who has physical access to the off
 |>> server.=C2=A0 Is that what you're worried about?=C2=A0 If not, then you
 |>     shouldn't
 |>> bother with per-user encryption.=C2=A0 Just encrypt all of /home or al=
l of
 |>> the pool with a single key.
 |>>
 |>> -Alan
 |>=20
 |>     I am evaluating options for domains where use of per-user encryptio=
n \
 |>     is
 |>     mandated, often as a means of protecting against insider threats.
 |>=20
 |>=20
 |> But if the victim user and the aggressor user are logged in at the same
 |> time, then both users' home directories will be decrypted, and unix
 |> permissions will be the only thing protecting the victim, right?=C2=A0 =
That
 |> situation doesn't sound any better than no encryption at all.=C2=A0 And
 |> insiders who have offline access to the HDDs would be thwarted by global
 |> encryption just as much as per-user encryption.=C2=A0 I'm not denying t=
hat
 |> you may be under some legal mandate for per-user encryption; I just
 |> don't understand the motivation.
 |
 |Per-user encryption is not perfect, but that's not the goal of
 |requirements like this.  First of all, this can be used to protect
 |secure workstations, where it's reasonable to expect only one person to
 |be logged in at a time.
 |
 |Beyond that, the goal is to shrink the window of possible attacks and to
 |aid detection.  If the Adversary has to be active while a particular
 |user is logged in, then they have a much smaller window of attack.
 |Moreover, this helps with forensics, as you can look at what else was
 |going on in the system in the much shorter window while a compromised
 |user was active.

That project is very cool.
I also want to thank for importing ZFS with encryption, i am not
using it yet, but am looking forward to it.

One important aspect of such (additional, on top of block
encrypted disks) per-user-home encryption is that you can simply
backup the entire directory without additional protection, if you
have access to the unmounted content.

I personally use several different encrypted directories, not the
/home/steffen as such but sec.arena and sic therein, which get
only mounted as necessary, and automatically unmounted (for all
users) when the LID is closed.


--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)



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