From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 28 14:26:30 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB602106568B for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:26:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from af.gourmet@videotron.ca) Received: from relais.videotron.ca (relais.videotron.ca [24.201.245.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 800CA8FC16 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:26:30 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Received: from [192.168.0.51] ([96.21.103.185]) by VL-MO-MR003.ip.videotron.ca (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-4.01 (built Aug 3 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KS8000JBAS5Y010@VL-MO-MR003.ip.videotron.ca> for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-id: <4AE84687.3070005@videotron.ca> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:26:31 -0400 From: PJ User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) To: Tony McC References: <4AE3944A.4090602@videotron.ca> <20091025062322.GA985@sandcat> <4AE63986.6090106@videotron.ca> <20091027051352.417ce684@scorpio.seibercom.net> <1256674827.6414.8.camel@lenzinote.wrinfo> <4AE7696F.1030601@videotron.ca> <20091028125318.44ee6593@elena.home> <20091028141025.248563e3.freebsd@edvax.de> <20091028135549.2f706021@elena.home> In-reply-to: <20091028135549.2f706021@elena.home> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: flashplugin X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:26:30 -0000 Tony McC wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:10:25 +0100 > Polytropon wrote: > > >> In "Windows", things don't work without thinking. The >> misbelief that is does is grounded in the fact that >> other people have to deal with problems, while the >> user praises "Windows" for its easyness of use. >> >> In PJ's case, maybe PC-BSD is a good choice. As far as >> I know, they offer a working "Flash" plugin that can >> be installed by their PBI system. I haven't tested >> this because PC-BSD with its KDE centric concept simply >> isn't my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean that it's >> not a good OS - hey, it's still FreeBSD. :-) >> >> Tony, I can understand that you might get the impression >> that PJ doesn't have a full understanding of the concepts >> and procedures needed to know in order to properly operate >> FreeBSD. This may be true. But he's constantly learning >> and understanding, and I think even with the troubles he >> likes to use FreeBSD (PJ, correct me if I'm wrong). >> >> When I came to FreeBSD (from a Linux and WEGA background, >> with lots of "strange" mainframe knowledge), I had similar >> trouble. I had many issues with C, too, before it became >> my primary programming language, but the fact that I can >> master FreeBSD now (at a sufficient level) is due to the >> fact that I had much good help, especially from this list, >> as well as much practice. Recognizing and resolving library >> requirements can surely be such a step into the right >> direction. It's not a state, it's a process. >> >> In the future, PJ will not only know that things work, but >> additionally understand *how* and *why* they work, and this >> will make him a master of FreeBSD, too. >> > > Hi Polytropon, > > thanks, I hope you are right, and I would love to see PJ become a > master of FreeBSD, but my impression from the mailing list is that that > progress is going to be too long and too frustrating. I suppose only > PJ can know if he/she feels that progress is happening. Nonetheless, I > stand by the advice to work systematically through the handbook and try > to gain a real understanding rather than a series of fixes. I suppose > I was suggesting that rather than address endless frustrating symptoms > of what looks like a mismatch between PJ's character (not ability, I > certainly do not wish to disparage that - by character I mean a > reluctance to stand back, slow down and approach the learning > systematically and to give it the time it will need) and the FreeBSD > way of doing things, it might be better to just move to something > more pre-packaged. PC-BSD may well be a good choice, I haven't tried > it. > > Oh, and you are exactly right about the kind of understanding that can > come with spending time with FreeBSD. But perhaps it's not for > everyone. > Hi Tony, I understand you POV but... I don't see why FreeBSD should not be for everyone. It sure would be great if we could lose MS and their associate mush. I see no reason why a FreeBSD user should have to become as master of the system. If the software is properly set up and maintained, there should be no need for huge techincal know-how. Your assumption is that the user should have enough knowledge to fix bugs or problems that are caused by technical errors and/or complexities. Isn't it a litttle absurd that often small updates to ports/progams cause huge problems in adapting to the new versions? Maybe that is an indication that the original concept of the port/proram was somewhat lacking and that just puts us right smack on a par with MS, Adobe and all the overbloated programs associated therewith. When FreeBSD programs are set up right and work fine it's a real delight... but when an update or small change blows things apart and you have to go back to "kindergarden" to learn a new universe... it's nt very comforting. Cheers. PJ=he not she .... heh...heh...heh :-)