From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 7 00:16:29 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C56571; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 00:16:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD1F22ABF; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 00:16:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from julian-mbp3.pixel8networks.com (50-196-156-133-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.196.156.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id rA70GQTi054657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 6 Nov 2013 16:16:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <527ADBD5.5010908@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 16:16:21 -0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Chadd , Peter Wemm Subject: Re: svn commit: r257696 - in head: libexec/rbootd share/man/man9 sys/compat/svr4 sys/net sys/sys References: <201311051029.rA5ATmmM017799@svn.freebsd.org> <201311051156.09819.jhb@freebsd.org> <20131105192904.GG7577@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" , svn-src-all , Gleb Smirnoff , "src-committers@freebsd.org" , John Baldwin X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 00:16:29 -0000 On 11/6/13, 9:00 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > I think the important thing here is that there _are_ organisations > that rely on some reasonable attempt at supporting historical APIs > where needed. > > This IMHO should've explicitly gone into a compat macro for people who > want support of this older stuff. > > My suggestion for a saner way to handle this deprecation schedule: > > * do the announce - I'd have to go looking for that, but we should be > placing these somewhere obvious (like a wiki page that lists > deprecated APIs in order, with the date/release they're going to be > deprecated); > * deprecate the userland use of the ioctl values first so they use the > newer API; > * deprecate the kernel API after the announced amount of time, hiding > things behind COMPAT_xxx as appropriate. > > > -adrian > the important thing for me is the ability to run *old jails*. such jails already require a special 'ps' for example (taken from a new /rescue) but there are apps that do special things for which new binaries are not available. typical case: freebsd user company in 1996: "Hey vendor can we have a binary of your "x" app for freebsd? Just compile your 'sun' version on a freebsd machine", vendor: "ok it'll take some time but we'll try it out.." 5 years later: vendor: "we never sold more than 2 of these on FreeBSD so we are discontinuing support.." 10 years later: user company: "thank god this still runs with the compat-4 option" 2014: "shit we're screwed" :-) OR "The binaries for this still run thank god, since we lost all the sources when mumble's machine crashed."