From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sun May 12 17:52:21 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCC58159DA91 for ; Sun, 12 May 2019 17:52:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound3d.ore.mailhop.org (outbound3d.ore.mailhop.org [54.186.57.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FD09822D2 for ; Sun, 12 May 2019 17:52:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1557683534; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=wC6rarLyHQYL4HlvM+or6pqwmbFjYR15ZLuTH5Hjg24kwxaw8F0uVAkSBCDIhPUSueGbkOy0kvK9e arxHTyC2Q0qSc3QFzQ74HI9b778Ta8Wn1/lG4M0ag9kdoMO8mKQtK9Yq0eKBGyReDksy4GwDie0OCB XstUbeg4eil607rj4DDFRlwb7/QKSWuaAq7nDxHTrf1icP7fZHC1WCi2Pjvd2K6kbui6tYu7LTaWoo VM+x+0zQVFpOyiMzscn0K32SXkzF2r8XVQdRyKGJefPiUn9tlpXG+L+mAjRrJFkg3o9VgXw7VNI0AA l5wlkQ5nSMPP2mU/hZj6/+pjYeNEWvw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=HXIO6iKKhGZskqmIyGx5ElvGQKD0Tj7QQKkv7/NaoO8=; b=ZcX1rtHhAiXwfZCHv8JPXK/0pcu1zgbf6Bprk+imMjKAF4PVBBEUKAVl/1qIYU1gCRT1i/yvy7gwV ghx7XwRRcq/dLlk9BP3+G8twifAuDRZ1ZuT22EEZVuNaTLP3JermV4s6U0ekmIYFFEaMCy50Fmv99x 5jKdq4SAsN6fe7YX6OAoRE3KP2LWMW4s+OBZua2VVDk8P9yaQTCVOP6N9dlvqHKjmInMeOckO+LQlb 7U6KkY3ESr9USbE/rAZNwNUnHVh0St2fuTXKqp/jSFEvZ5V1cwZdl7q7EBV+BpgEn7+GC3f37k41Gx hPRH7/+czm62QdFysPcuOCbgcNLTZUQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound3.ore.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=67.177.211.60; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:from; bh=HXIO6iKKhGZskqmIyGx5ElvGQKD0Tj7QQKkv7/NaoO8=; b=N9OzDsbejqpXLjjVDnLpN0tZA5XXEqL+zGcIDO2pa/abKY6Tu+R53uMrxceqbEZQKM1XUmbsSHvpI bR6hyrZudplV5kXv8/1pMWYYUDrsmkVSjsKi6DA5jVOBsbxxq4YW0eLNiXuXNAMpaJowIj/c6fBXl4 /JhDQ4UsCAPGlO0925OAzdT0hrVMKwlV9mvTeKJQYP1O1BP8zejicueqUpoTORkakIwjvXa/t3wFn1 xpRw/q9DCqlcGTFCth6p2m86VBUf4C4zblMNr8xDBj5acG+5Ux/wGM51R8tjzwzb9xkIHQwUSnMeeo owHRUyfw4vlQd/Jlg3z7PRmtY0glVaQ== X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: a9afa26b-74de-11e9-990f-673a89bc4518 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound3.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id a9afa26b-74de-11e9-990f-673a89bc4518; Sun, 12 May 2019 17:52:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x4CHq8Di059036; Sun, 12 May 2019 11:52:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <0c668e8b4edfddb055fc261b73de7cf9633c47ba.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FCP-101: obsolete driver removal planned for 2019-05-18 From: Ian Lepore To: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Eugene Grosbein Cc: Warner Losh , freebsd-net@freebsd.org, Brooks Davis , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 11:52:08 -0600 In-Reply-To: <201905121745.x4CHjmiw037513@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> References: <201905121745.x4CHjmiw037513@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0FD09822D2 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.97 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.971,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:54.186.0.0/15, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 17:52:22 -0000 On Sun, 2019-05-12 at 10:45 -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > 12.05.2019 8:21, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > >> I've posted a review to remove obsolete 10 and 10/100 > > > Ethernet drivers > > > >> as previous approved in FCP-101. > > > >> The following drivers are slated for > > > >> removal from FreeBSD-HEAD (to be FreeBSD-13): > > > >> ae, bm, cs, de, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, sf, sn, tl, tx, txp, > > > vx, wb, xe > > > > OMG ! ed ! That EOL's loads of PC boxes I have (& a show > > > box of > > > > spare) that will never be able to upgrade. > > > Do those boxes have 10M-only or 100Mbps variants of ed(4)? > > > What kind of hardware do they have (CPU and memory-wise)? > > > > > > There are no 100M ed variants. There are some PC Card variants > > > that have 100M MII connections, but they are limited to about > > > 12Mbps due to bus limits. Even the PCI ones didn't have 100M mii > > > connections. > > > > There was RTL8029AS "NE2000-compatible" 100M 32 bit PCI 2.1 > > adapter. > > Not sure if ed(4) supports RTL8029AS. > > That is what I was hunting for, but I can not seem to > locate a data sheet on that. > > I also thought there was a 100mb version of the DP83905, > but can not seem to locate any data thier either. > > Given this lack of findable data I shall continue to support > the ed removal, unless Julian comes up with the needed criteria, > and with holding my own fact that I do have a pile of these > around, but they are not in use and are only retained for > testing and resurection of ancient things. > We should not lose track of the fact that the operative question here isn't "are you using an ed(4) device?", but rather "do you have systems containing an ed(4) device which are capable of running freebsd 13 and that you plan on updating to freebsd 13 or later?" Many of the systems that contained these old devices don't have enough ram to run a modern version of freebsd. If you can't update the system to 13, you don't need ongoing ed(4) support. And make no mistake, ongoing support IS the issue -- it costs manpower we don't have much of to maintain old device drivers. -- Ian