From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Mon Mar 5 19:28:09 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA4CFF4959F for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2018 19:28:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bdrewery@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EF9A6A075; Mon, 5 Mar 2018 19:28:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bdrewery@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.xzibition.com (unknown [127.0.1.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25C09B30; Mon, 5 Mar 2018 19:28:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bdrewery@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.xzibition.com (localhost [172.31.3.2]) by mail.xzibition.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03F1F1516; Mon, 5 Mar 2018 19:28:07 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.xzibition.com Received: from mail.xzibition.com ([172.31.3.2]) by mail.xzibition.com (mail.xzibition.com [172.31.3.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with LMTP id 72w1Y7TdWc_u; Mon, 5 Mar 2018 19:28:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.xzibition.com 4EC121511 To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org, deb@freebsdfoundation.org References: <201803051909.w25J9b8s029105@fire.js.berklix.net> From: Bryan Drewery Openpgp: id=F9173CB2C3AAEA7A5C8A1F0935D771BB6E4697CF; url=http://www.shatow.net/bryan/bryan2.asc Organization: FreeBSD Message-ID: <55739682-e3d2-52fd-15a5-f89d16e2dcde@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 11:28:04 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201803051909.w25J9b8s029105@fire.js.berklix.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Dfb89j1723L9zFot341vqJ5ixcKpqkUga" X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2018 19:28:09 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Dfb89j1723L9zFot341vqJ5ixcKpqkUga Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="AWPme4oYHHsk3S0wyJ5qq8uBNKGZido2m"; protected-headers="v1" From: Bryan Drewery To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org, deb@freebsdfoundation.org Message-ID: <55739682-e3d2-52fd-15a5-f89d16e2dcde@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem References: <201803051909.w25J9b8s029105@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201803051909.w25J9b8s029105@fire.js.berklix.net> --AWPme4oYHHsk3S0wyJ5qq8uBNKGZido2m Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/5/2018 11:09 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Bryan Drewery wrote: >> This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) >> --oex5zYNtdOsHH7CGnZTm2mPFhuBKYldVo >> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=3D"YJ0tBWvLQToy5jfzJdV74lsXFyK= kOJvV1"; >> protected-headers=3D"v1" >> From: Bryan Drewery >> To: "Julian H. Stacey" , deb@freebsdfoundation.org >> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org >> Message-ID: >> Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem >> References: <201803050114.w251Dv53087353@fire.js.berklix.net> >> In-Reply-To: <201803050114.w251Dv53087353@fire.js.berklix.net> >> >> --YJ0tBWvLQToy5jfzJdV74lsXFyKkOJvV1 >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dutf-8 >> Content-Language: en-US >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> On 3/4/2018 5:13 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: >>> deb@freebsdfoundation.org wrote: >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> This is Deb Goodkin, Executive Director for the FreeBSD Foundation. = Th=3D >> e >>>> Foundation isn't responsible for the CoC, that would be the FreeBSD >>>> Project's core team. Please don't spread mis-information about the >>>> Foundation censoring discussions. Someone else on this thread can ho= pe=3D >> fully >>>> direct you to the correct mailing list for discussing your concerns >>>> regarding the Code of Conduct.=3D20 >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Deb Goodkin >>>> Executive Director >>>> The FreeBSD Foundation >>> =3D20 >>> Hi Deb, >>> Did the foundation pay for it ?=3D20 >> >> The discussion needs to not demonize people or entities involved on >> either side. >=20 > FreeBSD are at liberty to reject a non FreeBSD outsider who wrote this > especially if they were paid to write it, even more so if the paid > outsider hopes rules she/he wrote they'd like to see imposed on us. >=20 >=20 >> It seems to me that it would have been better had this CoC >> had more outside review and possibly a draft period where the project >> asked for community feedback. >=20 > ** A draft & period for comment should have been mandatory, > omiting it suggests arrogance or incompetence. >=20 >=20 >> IMHO it's not too late to go down those >> paths but we need to take a deep breath and consider that the intentio= ns >> of the CoC are only good; >=20 > Maybe, or not, See ** above. >=20 >=20 >> that the project should be more welcoming for >> everyone. There's nothing wrong with the Foundation sponsoring a CoC,= >> even if it had flaws. >=20 > I think legaly Foundation is not answerable to FreeBSD just to the > few who founded the foundation. Nothing wrong with FreeBSD rejecting > an unwanted gift as incompetent waste of money - if they want. >=20 >=20 >> It likely would need to help sponsor independent >> reviews to weed out unneutral language. >=20 > Whoever sprung this on FreeBSD community without warning should be admo= nished. >=20 > FreeBSD Foundation could ask for a refund from the incompetent who > wrote it, & Foundation in turn could refund those such as the person > who asked "Can I have a refund". >=20 The language and tone you are using only diminishes your voice, and frankly violates any average or common sense CoC. This was not done by 1 person or "outsider", it was done by a group of people and signed off by core@ (as I understand it). I think mistakes were made but attacking everyone involved won't achieve any positive results. --=20 Regards, Bryan Drewery --AWPme4oYHHsk3S0wyJ5qq8uBNKGZido2m-- --Dfb89j1723L9zFot341vqJ5ixcKpqkUga Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJanZpFAAoJEDXXcbtuRpfPhfIIAIzJC+Q0OpElb5dEBJoGgT2v QirJTWYenCHVv2Hc17BgxYLZvcJ/yek2iREP5R5YuW0qJNkLobVVGYFFGm8TEXTS uvRflLbW8oYA1NAqqFyv56t6YvUTbZS+jNfIPUoM5eH1dxCj+fUo+y+bnP2NVTP7 H5rgIi4aeEnSjjOk6+BMPmn15vL+cqHbtOx9E8sjdFDnLy8J1VV0kG6CIHQf3mdk 2hF9AZ82ts3dR8gZYWv+heTdj969t6rj7oeRzoXPO2FKyclk+VW47276WXmS0Wr3 PbEmb+TD92RImp/4oh0evw0O5Ok++MzvAWN6eZgDUM64upkeQOt7MTHU0gOFJDk= =1s1U -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Dfb89j1723L9zFot341vqJ5ixcKpqkUga--